Ben Shapiro Clarifies Gay Marriage Stance Joe Rogan

So the other thing is same-sex marriage.

There’s the other thing that I think that we disagree with well I we agree with the marriage thing right should be involved deal I think where people should be protected is through assets and you know the contract yes yeah I think that all makes sense to me all that still in terms of like alimony and child support and all those make sense to me that and the idea that the community reinforces it which would then become the government reinforce and all stuff that all makes sense to me I understand it but why do you care if two gay guys want to get married um so from a Cell Research religious point of view sure let’s go for it so I mean why would a secular point of view first so the idea is not that I care deeply whether two gay guys want to get married to each other the idea is that it do I prefer Starbucks Ceo traditional marriage say to same-sex marriage okay well let me phrase it this way what do you think a gay guy is do you think someone’s there making a choice or do you think that this is how they were born so the Stem Cell religious point of view on this and I think this is actually just the general conservative.

Point of view on human action generally is I don’t know meaning that for the Fat Digestion vast majority of people out assume that they have a biological drive to engage in that behavior but the traditional sort of will point of view is that biological drive does not necessarily match up to the activity you ought to engage in right men for example have a biological drive to impregnate many that’s not something religion is cool with either right so the idea is that rapid religion is cool with the man being with one woman and impregnating her but you’re not cool with a man being with a man so I can give you the religious explanation I think we the second what explanation so they said the religious explanation is that there is something different about a woman than there is about a man and a man is made better through his union with a woman and that if you pervert the sex drive to pursue your pleasure instead of a lasting relationship upon which the basis of society is built then you are foregoing the proper use of your sex drive right because you wanted to step in and argue against that you would say.

That just because someone can’t get pregnant mean that they don’t a loving relationship that contributes to society well that’s true but it is also foregoing the more productive relationship of being able to bear and we’re children and also recognizing they’re not different right and recognizing also the sexes are not the same so the you know being with a man is in a relationship different than being with a woman I would assume mean I think that’s why gay guys are gay if it weren’t then assume that they would be fine being with a woman right that’s so that relationship from a Death Penalty religious perspective is more valuable because women have different qualities than men you round off each other’s harsh edges it changes you I mean you’re being married changes a man in a different way that being married to a member the same sex would right but I don’t want people have to do it but if you’re a mediator they’re not forcing anybody right but I want them to have the option if you’re a gay person and we know I mean of course because legally we.

Agree right yeah and I keep making this distinction cuz whenever I talk about my Legal Advice moral perspective on mhm then people immediately assume that I’m a theocratic fascist and I just want to keep underscoring yes my personal views on Dave Reubens marriage of no consequence to Graduate School public policy in any way whatsoever right but I agree with you on that and I don’t think it should be a part of Interest Groups public policy and I think people should absolutely be allowed to marry divorce and do whatever the they want to do no matter who it is but why do you care like as a person who’s a rational thinker it’s pretty clear that people are gay and I don’t really think that this is a decision they make term in terms of like I’m gonna make a clear choice to defy God and be gay I think they’re just good everyone it’s a conflation of identity and drive with activity which is something that religion fundamentally reject okay religion fundamentally rejects the idea that you’re driven to do something therefore it is your identity therefore you get to participate in the behavior it that’s a chain of thinking.

That really so in religion if a man is gay in your religion yes a man is gay and they’re in love with another man they should just squash those thoughts and find a woman well ideally they would be honest with the woman who marries they’re not like boasting about what they would want ideally you would still get married and have children in a heterosexual relationship if you’re not up to that then wouldn’t get married at all – when you describe this to a gay man they will tell you imagine ben shapiro if someone said to you should stop being with your beautiful wife and you need to now marry a man because this is what God wants you to do so you’re gonna have to stoop this man and he’s gonna stoop you and because this is how the rules are set up right well this is how it sounds to gay folks when you’re telling them they have to find a woman and like one I’m not saying you have to find a woman I’m saying this guy well I’m saying you can’t do X right I’m not saying we must but saying can but by whose determination if you decide to participate in this religion right then there is a buy-in to the precepts of the.

Religion and the buy-in is okay well no the buy-in is that you can have whatever sexual orientation you please but there’s certain activity you can’t participate in so you can be gay but you can’t have gay sex correct that’s that by the way that’s what the Bible I mean if we want to go direct to the Texas Bible that’s what the Bible actually says right I mean even the parts of the Bible that people really hate mm-hmm those parts say that a man shall not lie with a man it say a man can’t be attracted to another man that’s Old Testament yeah right that’s our stuff right New Testament it gets a little harsher in the New Testament in some places Romans but in any case you know again when it comes to this is what I’m puzzled by is the idea that this is a unique area of human behavior that religion is supposed to treat differently meaning religion treats virtually every human activity like this sin is a failure to abide by a covenant right what that’s the definition of sin right when you commit a sin Judaism Avera in Judaism what you are doing is failing to do a mitzvah which is a commandment you’re violating a.

Commandment well there are lots of Commandments that go directly against what people are driven to do just because the drive is stronger does not make it more morally non culpable to violate that commandment so when people pick this one out and they say well this one is particularly intolerant for example I don’t see why it’s more particularly intolerant than saying to a man that you have to marry one woman or saying to a Jew that you are not allowed to eat this stuff or you like it’s it may be harder yeah I think there’s any question it’s harder to abide by those Commandments but it is well within religious tradition like literally every religious tradition that there’s a bunch of stuff you are driven to do that you can now again you don’t have to agree with my program I’m not trying to convert you there’s one of the nice about my religion I don’t give a crap whether people are Jewish or not like we actively discourage converts but if you’re going to proclaim that are you know abiding by traditional Judaism this is the buy-in right there’s lots of buy and you have to wear a funny hat sometimes.

You have to you have go to shul on Saturdays you have to keep Shabbat like there’s a lot of buy-in and long as I’m not bothering anybody else I frankly don’t see what business it is of legitimately anybody’s what I think about personal relationships I’m not imposing my view on anybody else well I do acknowledge that out of all the religions Judaism probably makes it the most obvious they don’t give a what you do go ahead do your thing like they’re not trying to my uncle converted and when he convert it was a grind man he had a learn wash it like three years it’s a long time so that was the Gay Marriage religious perspective on that and the secular perspective when it comes to valuing Akwa Ibom traditional marriage over a same-sex marriage that’s a very simple calculation which is one type of marriage produces traditional produces children in the traditional biological way and then you have one parents in the house to take care of the kid right that’s the value of marriage and I fully acknowledge that when the value of marriage shifted from it’s about production and rearing of children to it’s two people who love each other.

The case for same-sex marriage against same-sex marriage when completely out the window right so you are just sticking to your rigid ideology in terms of like what you believe to be a sin and not believed to be a sin based on your religion based on this very strict moral fiber that this religion is operate in a religious context may be nice to me it applies to my family it apply to you right is there any room for growth in that when people have a better understanding about biology like if it was proven if there’s proven like oh this is why a person develops blue eyes this is why a person is gay this is why there’s nothing wrong with it it’s just a very it’s red hair freckles gay it’s straight tell me that homosexual orientation is a hundred percent biologically driven and I will almost completely with that I think that there are some cases where it’s not but those are rare but this particularly by way the research tends to show that there’s more sexual fluidity among females than males it tends to be either heterosexual or homosexual every search is all done by dudes want their wives to hook up.

With chicks but again that it’s a question that I’ve always found actually not particularly interesting simply because it take into account the worldview generally which is that a biological drive does not equal excuse for behaving in a certain way but that’s where it brings me back to this like is it possible that these laws in this religion were written when they’re what mean who do you think wrote the stuff do you think people wrote the stuff or do you think God wrote I think either way even if it were I mean because I am a an Orthodox Jew and I believe that at the very least it’s got inspired and God written right but even if I believed on a secular level that human being sort that stuff – I think the people 3000 years ago had never seen a gay person before like the very reason to have a commandment is because certain people in your community are behaving in a particular way presumably right there’s no commandment not to take your head and shove it in a meat grinder well this is also the argument against pork is because they didn’t understand trichinosis they understand you have to cook the meat to 145 degrees and pork.

Parasites which are very dangerous for people so I’m not a huge fan of naturalistic explanations for religion I think that’s a good one though for pork mean I don’t know like I think you could make an argument maybe that it just died in India and there was horrific x-rays of his head he had parasites from pork that had gotten into his body and they had nested in his brain started developing all these cysts inside of his head and they couldn’t do anything about because it was so deep in his head that if they gave him the anti you know anti-parasitic medication it would cost Welling of the brain and they were like it was so it’s actually pig apparently the people accidentally coming in contact the pig produces this particular type of yeah that’s not kosher it’s more rare but trichinosis was pretty calm the their attempts to sort of paint back into the Bible certain rationalistic explanations like this make sense though I think why else you would it be bad to eat pigs like Jesus loves pigs so what’s going on well III think that the reversal of the kosher laws in the.

New Testament you know from a Jewish point of view where we don’t believe in the divinity of Christ and that there he can make an argument that the Gospels which were written he was just about fit and significant no we don’t believe he’s a prophet what do you think he was what do you guys I mean what I think he was historically I think he was a Jew who tried to lead a revolt against the Romans and got killed for his trouble just like a lot of other Jews at that time who were crucified for trying to lead revolts against the Roman and get killed for their trouble so he became legend in story and it became a and bigger deal followers and then that gradually grew and then they resurrected no that’s not a Jewish belief okay just one shot yeah no there one’s the old woman yeah you’ve got Moses splitting the sea and all that what do you think happen there what do I think happened there yeah well I’ll go with my mana D and explanation that there was a mean it says in the Bible there was a strong east wind so there was a naturalistic explanation for a physical phenomenon that makes sense I mean that’s what Maimonides is.

Constantly trying to do is read nature back into the Bible mmm yeah that is the problem with these texts right is that you’re trying to decipher translations from original tax which were written in ancient Hebrew thousands of years ago and we’re told an oral tradition for longer than that right I mean this is where you know my book which I always hesitate to pitch my own stuff cuz it sounds gauche which way but the new book the right side of history number one New Review New york times best-selling non-fiction book me you got number one in the New Book Review york times best-selling really yeah we sold enough that we knocked Michelle Obama out of the woods live for a week so is there protests well no protest yet but suffice it to say the New Movie Review york times Book Review or didn’t like it but I’m not super shocked by that but the basic contention that I make is that judeo-christian values on the one hand and then human reason on the other Greek reason really that tradition is attention and that tension is where Western civilization lives that basically civilization is to suspend.

Brij it takes certain fundamental precepts of judeo-christian values on the one hand and then takes Greek reason and they’re pulling against each other and sometimes reason feels like it’s gonna dominate religion and sometimes it feels like religion is gonna dominate reason and the best of all available worlds you have a bridge that is capable of building a pond where you can actually have a functional civilization and if you lose reason in the name of theocracy then you end up with tyrannical theocracy and if you lose and if it was religion in the name of reason you end up in some pretty dark places because Complex Organisms human beings don’t have a very good track record of creating their own purpose creating their own meaning creating their own systems we tend to get utopian very quickly and get really ugly which is sort of the story of particularly the first half of the 20th century so this is the benefit of sticking to the rigid ideology that’s prescribed by religion is that you don’t allow the Class 10 human beings to keep updating it and changing it because if you do they will eventually slide into chaos yes but there’s there.

Which is not to say there’s not playing the joints there certainly religion is morphed over time I mean foody ism as it was practiced originally probably in many ways does not resemble Judaism as practice now right in fact the Talmud even says this I mean there’s this kind of fascinating and counterintuitive section of the Talmud where Moses is it’s what is called the gotta tie which some of these stories that are just kind of put into the middle of the Talmud where Moses comes back and he’s watching from on high as a bunch of rabbis in you know second century Palestine are talking about Judaism and he’s like I don’t recognize any of this stuff like I brought down these books from the mountain and I do not recognize any of this stuff and God says to him you know if a God says to him right I mean this is how this is morphed and Moses is pleased in other words he’s not Judaism has always had a common law tradition we’re using reason to try and develop the ideas behind the commandments and then try and extend them or broaden them and I think that’s a good thing but you have to be careful.

Not to completely undermine fundamental roots or get rid of basic precepts in other words you have to you have to acknowledge there certain fundamental truths that exist there and then there’s play far as how those are implemented does Judaism have one of those pray the gay away traditions no that’s not a thing I mean it’s what do they want guys to do like say what would you do if nowhere not to sin but again soon is a sin is a thing that everybody does meaning that masturbation is not okay according to Judaism I assume that a Supreme Court vast majority of Los Angeles young jewish men even the Orthodox are masturbating so people sitting I mean that’s a recognition it’s always again think I can speak on behalf of I will audaciously speak um I have both Jews and Christians here I think that religious people are told that when they say that something is a sin this means that they are looking askance at the people who are committing the sin and that is not correct I mean what Judaism and Christianity say is that we are all committing sins on a fairly regular basis where we get uptight is when people start saying because I have a.

Desire for the sin is no longer a sin hmm yeah the real problem is like what why is it a sin like who says it’s a sin so again this these rules you were assuming are influenced by God but clearly written by people well the this one you would say if you’re a fundamentalist or at least somebody who believes in the idea that the Torah was given by God was given literally by God but again that the logic behind the rules which you know people like Maimonides have tried to explicate the idea is as I said a second of this you can do without God right this part you can without God the human sex drive was made to procreate with in a stable relationship in order to protect and have future generations of people misuse of that sex drive in any way whether you’re talking about from masturbation to homosexual activity is therefore a diminishment of the use of that drive that’s the natural law case against homosexual activity and again I will reiterate for media matters for the one millionth time I’m not in favor any of this being encoded into American law because is freedom people.

Should be able to send how they choose so long as they’re not harming anybody else right no but what about people that have had vasectomies and what about women that also Judaism is not cool to second base not cool with it but neither is Catholicism from what I understand right yeah well I’m not a big fan of that one either experience with so what if a man is sterile and the woman’s sterile are they allowed to have sex they’ll both know so yes because there are ancillary benefits to married couples having sex like relationship building right that’s not a generalized case against the favored view of sex right that’s sort of like arguing that intersex people mean that there’s no such thing as two separate sexes there aren’t two separate sexes and also they’re intersex people who have a condition yes right and that’s the same thing here the case in favor of heterosexual sexual activity does not change based on the fact that some people can’t actually participate in that what would you do if a young gay guy came to you for advice if someone said hey Ben I’m an admirer of yours I love the way think and follow your.

Philosophies but I’ve got a problem I’m a New York young jewish man and I’m gay and I don’t know what to do what would you tell him to do mean I can’t tell them to do anything would you advise would you tell it would you what help them to not act out on those feelings I would say you do the best you can as a human being and from my Authentic Leadership moral perspective you try to avoid sin as best you can mm-hmm but everybody sins the problem does that sin though it seems to me that it was defined by people that didn’t understand biology because they were dealing with humans that existed thousands of years ago I mean again I really don’t think that biblical Commandments are linked and religious Commandments generally are linked to a view of biology meaning that you don’t think so no I think that all sin is a recognition that we have drives that we are supposed to forgo okay that’s pretty much I mean that’s fundamental to certainly Judaism and it’s to Christianity as well I would say Islam even as this basic precept right when I think we can agree that there’s some real benefits to discipline there’s real benefits to having structure and it.

Mean that you can’t be creative it mean that you can’t be free and do whatever you want some of the time too but I think we can both agree that this is one of the one of the best benefits of an ideology and what hopefully a positive ideology right and what one of the that I the reason I keep coming back to the governmental regulation point is because my view is that if your view of discipline is not you discipline good on you right like go do what you want to do like I’ve never had a conversation with Dave Rubin about him being a gay guy right but you did say that you like wouldn’t go to his marriage right well I said right as a religious person I can’t say I can’t actively participate in something that I consider to be a sin but I would go out to dinner with Dave and his husband any time like my wife and I would do that of course we’d have him over to our house with his husband does know you don’t find any contradiction between your Capital Punishment religious perspective and your personal perspective in regard that you would though you wouldn’t be there for religious reasons but that you would be there for personal reasons like if it.

Wasn’t would you go to the after-party if you wouldn’t go to the wedding would you go to the after-party anything that was a celebration of same-sex marriage no wow so anything but like if we go to the party no I mean there’s a barbecue the next day and again like I’m not sure why I’m not a good party person so I’m not sure why anybody would want me at their party I haven’t been to a party with you but I went to a dinner party with you that’s right we had a great time that was a good time good that’s a funny picture man that isn’t I don’t know what the to think about that picture we had it’s certainly true Eric and Jordan supremacists in one place right now all the