Find out more about Joe Rogan 1215 Ben O’Brien

Three two to one uh was this.

Beverage concocted by you the first one yes you created bribery if you ask me yes if you have Dudley what is said he would say maybe he was there maybe he was there he might have been there he was definitely there yeah but whose idea it’s hard to say with these tears Joe Cheers good to see you look good you look good too sure hey that sure is the new Ben O’Brien special get that shirt you get this from your website because of the meteor calm you go to the store and it’s there yeah so what people you know I had on Steve Rinella our good friend and yes we were talking about what they’re dealing with what meat eaters doing mmm this is a very strange thing where they’ve they’re this giant multimedia corporation is stepped in I’ll throw in a ton of money at meat-eater and all these different companies that are involved in the outdoors all these outdoor activities that is true and they’re putting it all together into one super Network juggernaut of outdoor activities it’s true yeah it is um something I’ve never been a part of before it’s something like.

I’ve never seen before in the hunting industry it has existed before I don’t think so no I don’t think so can’t be so we would have known yeah above what better to try then something that’s never been done well you had been doing your podcast for what like a year now about ten months about ten month that’s a month and we were just saying that I tried to get you to do one five years ago five years ago yeah Ben and I went on a moose hunt in British Columbia and I would say that it was like friendship at first yeah we had a great Mike hawkers yeah and Sam so all yes with us as well like I would always describe that is like the most fun that I’ve ever had on a hunt it was good maybe ever I don’t know we’ve done a lot of stuff we were laughing a lot that’s why it was like a lot of fun and a lot wasn’t a hardship like we didn’t sleep in tents no we slept at Mike’s house which is great and then you know it was a lot of hiking stuff and you know wasn’t it successful until like the very last days and you shot a moose in the celebration was fantastic we had a good time we had a great super hammered the.

Last night remember last night what were you drinking like some kind of spiced rum or some kind I don’t know thank God it got real it’s well when you’re drunk and you’re drunk in the middle of nowhere and there’s wolves everywhere it’s a different culture we remember that we went and we shot your bull right and then we took the heart in the liver yeah we started drinking heavily and you’re up there just cooking liver and onions cooking up a giant moose heart so we had like the fuel organs of an animal you just killed like and then simcha kill it’s kind of like trash bag Canadian rum that was terrible yeah and that’s very party dude but it worked a real good I don’t know what’s a good rum or bad rum at all to me like I kind of get good whisky now I understand whisky sort of but be an Irish it’s just like all it’s in there and then it just does what it does when it’s in there yeah once the party’s begun like here’s what I don’t get tequila people no this is good tequila this but every tequila I ever drank I go like this what about that George Clooney tequila what is like that scatters own.

Tequila yeah he is it tequila Jamie oh no listen I’ll tell you what sounds like a fancy George clean tequila can suck a fat dick because Ron White’s got his own tequila numero juan yeah sarcastic tequila it’s just that’s what he calls it wand numero one tequila I think that’s what it’s called right number one or is it number one it’s number one but like if George Clooney wasn’t good enough at everything else and all handsome and wonderful he made a tequila company and like did it right if you listen to the origin story of it they did it right well there’s number one Ron White no matter I wanted to Ron’s is good I think George Clooney’s got enough money so him I think he sold it for millions and billions of dollars yeah see what happened is he got married and he realized listen I’m gonna have some money on the side keeps his hits the rocks yeah what do I like to do and I’m a little bit bored and not feeling it tequila yeah every man who has ever heard an awful divorce story no matter how good it’s going say it every awful divorce started with I do they all.

Started with idea they all started with thank good intention you you’re amazing and good intentions started with good I will say again I won’t say the name of the person cuz I would just be seen come out knock it there was a feller that liked I knew in my younger years that got married and I was in the wedding party yes so she got that what she got there was weed it’s very dangerous for you yeah you’re living Montana you can’t handle this yet no it’s not legal there they made it illegal medical they made medical legal then they voted it out well savages go with abl sorceries they made medical legal than they had dispensaries and they voted the dispensaries out when I was in Bozeman last time I was there they were shutting down the doors or the dispensaries you live in the golden land here yeah but you know what I hesitate to say this but it’s probably for the best just to keep people like me we’re in a safe space it’s just me and you we’re in the trust tree we’re in the nest Bozeman is so special it’s such a cool little town we shouldn’t be talking.

About I shouldn’t be telling people right it is a terrible place Bears will eat you alive really in the streets there in the street but your good thing is the dumb people get eaten by bears that’s true like you people turn up missing like some assholes deals lawnmowers he’ll just turn up missing out there just forest yeah they get cocky and you know people that just make it live to be a hundred in LA they could eat when they’re like 35 yeah it’s now that’s local place yeah but that’s in the summer give a I was there in the winter it’s like that but white yeah you ever seen the show Game of Thrones yeah in the winter it’s like White Walkers right there’s a large ice wall when did you move we just my family just moved there we just moved into our brand-new home about three weeks ago there mr. Rogan but you were there before were you ready yeah I was ranting living out of it I lived out of a 3 Drawer storage unit for a time I’d heard about this there’s a rumor yeah wild bet O’Brien lives in 4 Drawer storage units a Drawer Plastic storage unit did it was a nice Climate Control storage unit shout out that an.

Airport north storage oh well did you get a gym membership or something listen Airport North stores it’s time for me to tell the truth oh my god I can’t believe you’re coming clean with I’m coming and clean I did sleep in there some nights I slept in a 6 Cube storage unit because their laws against that it’s probably getting the contract when you sign not to do that really I did it anyway what do you think what happened yeah they’ll probably get out of the 9 Cube storage unit and get a hotel weirdo you loser but I just did that you know as the sacrifice for my family you’re building a house I needed to be where my job was plus you camp out there yeah you can’t pop this beautiful man it’s beautiful and in Bozeman is so popular that time of year that it’s hard to oh that’s right yeah it’s hard to find a place to stay for a short period Sara bein bees and all stuff that ain’t really going down amazing Airbnb they just figured out a way to like rent houses on make money when no one’s there like oh yeah I’m good how did nobody ever figure that out before it’s kind of crazy.

There’s a lot of these technology companies Alec why aren’t we doing that before uber is a great one dude I was coming home the other night yeah and there was five lifts behind me so you know lift is different because they have that weird thing on the dash that little light yes and it was like I was being chased by these purple robots I was like what the this is a strange I was gonna ask if you’re at storage the big 8 Cube storage unit story for no today as you guys were just talking about that no this big 5 Shelf storage unit story yeah you remember like just a show that was on the storage wars whatever oh yeah the guy that was responsible for selling them to people sold one to a guy for $500 an inside was a safe that had seven point five Worth Today million dollars cash in it look at that guy was this one no wasn’t on the show just happened recently so the guy that bought it why actually was contacted by lawyers from the people who owned it and he made a deal with them what’s the deal what’s the get a million or something like that Joey do you want to go into a business storage wars yeah guys this face what a chance what the is dumb you.

Have to feel you have a whole show about people finding in Expedit Tv storage units you sell a Badger Basket storage unit and it’s got seven Gta 5 million dollars in seven a half seven and a half Live Off million dollars still though the dude gets to keep a million how does that work though isn’t it his storage unit how many just that kind of off what do you mean lost seven Dollar Bills million dollars well for example come after you how dirty is that money exactly they must be where it’s safe and it was just the safe only in the storage oh that’s got to be something bad and they get that handsome dude that was in the beginning of Ozarks handsome Mexican straight-up murderer he’s gonna come visit you yeah hello man yeah that guy was my favorite I was so sad when they spoiler so sad when they killed him like the dude from Breaking Bad that comes around yeah we twins but did you see Ozark ever CEOs are I watched like the first couple episodes and I it up for you yeah because there’s a pivotal moment that I just gave us too many there’s so many shows though there are so many shows but that’s a damn good one is it good that is a damn good show.

What’s the guy this the guy who stars in that Jason Bateman bavin he’s excellent and the woman Laura Linney she’s yeah the family’s amazing the kids amazing it’s show man it’s a show nope you get sucked in and that Netflix lets you watch them all like are listen let me ask you a question I’m in yes I asked a lot of people is not said this at a Christmas party and I got with a bunch of hunters and I got you know a couple like the stink-eye like what’s this guy talking conservatives I don’t know but in that I think maybe I’m just you’ve seen movie the greatest showmen oh is that the musical it is I’ve been forced to watch segments of that with my wife and children it is fantastic very good movie Hugh Jackman’s an angel he’s angel an Australian angel is he sent down here to save us you ever seen him dance and sing he’s magical I’m a hunter I got a hunting podcast but I’m telling you you’re a manly man Lou that beard yeah look at this thing but I love that movie it’s great movie I.

Listen to it on Pandora the greatest showman channel and I the tunes listen did my favorite comedy on TV is the unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt okay so I can’t be talking about manly are not manly Hugh Jackman perform announces world tour set to perform the greatest showmen songs he’s gonna just sing look at him look at it oh yeah look at him wow man show gorgeous man he’s just I mean it’s unbelievable well yeah I get made fun of for this like my of course my son likes it my wife likes it but enjoy I get me like your son he’s too you don’t know anybody but he’s like the music something’s going on yeah he’s just like there’s someone the TV yeah he’s not like a crazy he’s not writing that critique yeah but if you put on Dora the Explorer then you switched it over to that he was this guy dancing no Theodore aback Oh Dora yeah listen I think that I watch like if you watch like Game of Thrones where they are burning children yeah and like it’s entertaining but sometimes I need a break I’d like to watch a man dance around sing for a woman whatever don’t matter those those.

Shows can get dark where you like what am I doing to myself you know like narcos oh yeah and they were just going to a nightclub and gun people down yes sitting there watching like women and children who smoked and it’s what’s other the show with Anthony Hopkins on HBO what’s that the robots Oh Westworld yeah that’s the same way yes they’re shooting kids on there though well the kids a robot we yeah the shot one right in the face so every once in a while you need to sprinkle a little bit of musical in your life I believe yeah what is that do you and here’s coming from a person that’s been on a bunch of life-changing experiences and I know you have I want talk to you about something yes especially the one in Nepal we almost died you saw children and wolves babies we talked about that on the last podcast but it’s probably be worth revisiting um what do you think this is like why are we so obsessed with life or death drama that’s artificial well you see it like in the show West world they talk about like it being a game yeah it being this game of XS like what.

Can I do in my real life right so when you watch TV and you watch murdering and you watch this evil thing come to just you’re it’s it really is something that you can be trained sporty can’t do that in your regular life well fruits for sure with Westworld what you’re getting is basically a real live version of that Red Dead Redemption yes right so when you play that we were talking about the other day how this guy got in trouble because they have all these in the game that you can do to people and this guy like tie this hooker up and threw her off a cliff and she’s dark you can do whatever you want but they were filming this stuff and putting it on YouTube and then YouTube would get mad and YouTube pulled them off but then people were like well wait a minute though why how come you can just do it like once why did you have that in the game but it did when my dad was my age 30 40 years ago there they would never have enter there’s nothing done anything like Game of Thrones or West world ever in fact there was a West world and wasn’t anywhere near like it.

Is you look in the modern-day good movie yeah but like I think we just stretched out the limits to which we’re willing to explore like really terrible and evil for entertainment we’ve definitely changed what we’re willing to accept and where the bar is in terms of quality the bars through the roof its immersive to the point where you can’t even like you can’t even explain what’s your experience when you’re watching these shows yeah so look if you go and you see some great comedy from the 1990s like you see watch a Dave Chappelle or Chris Rock special yeah in the 90s that holds up 100 Seinfeld I get that but what I’m saying is like if that was out today it would be a 100 stand-up special yeah oh you see the new Chris Rock bigger and blacker it’s amazing but if you tried to put some ass 1990s TV show on Netflix if you try to like finagle some CSI Miami some I don’t know if CSI Miami is that even a show is that a real show that’s a show there’s a CSI Miami there is several there’s many CSI guests but we’ve like more an order we’ve.

Explored ER there’s so many of those but we’ve expanded our willingness to like explore that are I mean Game of Thrones for exam ball is one of the best shows ever created in my opinion for sure but it explores some unthinkable awful well it’s the whole show spoiler alert is around a brother and sister who and had a whole family yeah so it explores like these that in we wouldn’t never even touch upon in our media in the 50s 60s even the 70s we touched upon those in a way that we do now know not only that but here’s the thing law and order’s not a bad show like if you watch it you’ll be in a don’t know so what happened why did we go not good enough like what was it matter that was it did they go not good enough or did is it like look if you watch okay and you watch some from the 1980s and then you flipped through like you not that I would ever do that but if you did do that and looked at all the different categories you’d be like what the happened yeah like why are people why is gagging something people.

Are looking for funny it’s not an accident category are we’ve expanded our ability to conceive of yes in a media space where we can create you can create dragons that breathe ice you can create yeah there’s you can be transported like listen this isn’t real so I can do this right I can have this scene of rape infidelity or incest that seems it’s appropriate to me only in this fantasy world man sometimes I get down on that stuff like you watch enough of it you’re just like I need a musical I need to be inspired that life is grand and I did that’s how I feel about it man sometimes it comes across and like this dude washes musicals but I do for a little bit of a break something’s wrong with it but I’m weirded out about is this natural human inclination towards progression in everything good or bad is that just keep ramping up well but we’re progressing with our storylines for like humanity in a weird way in media but we’re also like suppressing a lot of our we’re trying to suppress through social justice a lot of the same right well some people are but I think it’s a small very.

Vocal minority I think in reality there’s the vast majority people find out about said suppression or upset by it and look what in the you talking about with this safe spaces and all this most people hear that stuff are going oh this is just nonsense buy a few like really loud activist is like even my podcast was something like serious as hunting is because you’re killing step like that’s yeah going out into the world and taking plucking something that you didn’t put there yeah taking it away but like I think that the core of what I think you do well and what I think others should try to do is like ask why are we willing to why is Game of Thrones the most-watched show that’s why I can’t answer that question conversation because if it’s so fictitious right it’s so obviously fiction you’re living in this fictional world you have fictional White Walkers you have dragons you have people that can survive in fire yeah but it’s parallels to real life and then these ridiculous fantasies but then these parallels to real life that that.

Travel along the same path and like you don’t get to choose between the dragons and the incest yeah both there at the same time I think it fulfills a lot of like base needs but it does so in this way that’s obviously false yeah it’s like why are superhero so huge to us if you stop and think about the number of blockbusters that are superhero movies that are comic-book movies they’re coming out like once every couple of months it’s crazy that was a rare beast when I was a yes when I was a kid there’s a Hulk movie I would have jump for joy there was no goddamn spider-man movie when I was a kid there was a TV show and it sucked okay it was a goddamn cartoon TV show spider-man does whatever a spider can spins a web any size catches thieves just like flies look out here comes a spider-man it was terrible yep and I used to get up early to watch it because I was a huge comic book you’ve watched the Lou Ferrigno Hulk right yeah watched I was a little bit I mean like you’ve watched the Batman yeah with Adam West yeah you watch him now and you’re like.

What is happening so they came out with Superman he was like the first movies that what is this a Spider Man TV show that’s another team look I got in the back ii have the background doing who’s that guy he don’t look you don’t do anything good it’s got a wooden stick he need to know those season no less spider-man can shoot webs out of his hands and that wooden sticks probably not gonna do much then Spiderman sort of changed his ability right because you used to be able to do like now he could just basically fly I mean just hurls himself through the air and sticks to buildings you know used to be a little harder to swing around back is like let me drop my backpack full of textbooks yeah get to but he’s that there was no spider-man movies when I was a kid and there was a Superman movie and the Superman movie begat the Batman movie came out Michael Keaton it was big success people were shocked at Michael Keaton was Batman but it worked was that like Danny DeVito was the penguin yeah everybody got a shot at.

Batman it was one of those if you were Batman you must be the it guy Clooney George Clooney’s Batman Christian Bale’s Batman Arnold Schwarzenegger was mr. freeze that’s but they got to Ben Affleck and they’re like no player whoa isn’t that funny like that’s real like the amount of people that will see you as Batman it’s whether or not they really believe it they like Christian Bale I believe that God could be Batman but Michael Keaton for a longest time was Batman yes but see he started it off so that the difference between Michael Keaton is there was no one before him other than Bruce Wayne and he was the first dark real Batman I forgot about Val Kilmer I forgot about Val Kilmer god damn it Val Kilmer was Batman what his house is human being Val Kilmer is he’s a dude him was Doc Holliday Oh in that uh his what’s the name of that movie tombstone god damn that’s one of the best that’s one of the best he was specimens ever he was believable that was a that was a straight-up murder I still the most.

Quoted but see nobody will think back on Ben Affleck’s career and be like he was Batman it’s not just that he’s done some good move yeah but is also he always says there’s nothing around his career that he must feel like how man if this goes bad it’s gonna ruin me he’s done so many great he’s a very good actor don’t get me wrong but what is it about him does he too handsome no because Val Kilmer’s gorgeous they’re what all those folks were very handsome is it jiggly this is him and Jennifer Lopez decides that it should say jiggly Healey whatever the it is do your losses giggling look not everybody should get that kind of pussy it’s just it shouldn’t be on your diet it’s too rich for you some people get diabetes right they need to lay off the sugar everybody’s got different tolerance you cake every morning Jennifer Lopez obviously besides being beautiful and having a body like some sort of a test-tube person some lab-created super freak obviously she knows how to throw that thing she knows how to throw that thing I’m gonna be hard – it would be hard to argue with that fact yeah let.

Some goddamn Nolan Ryan pussy yeah I together I’m not unaware of what you’re talking I’d love the fact that those go so hard they go so hard and then they fizzle out they just you know what it’s like having like a Pinto with a Corvette zr1 engine stuffed and there’s no structure to it was listed design those wheels are not designed for that relation well is that why I’m not you live in Hollywood you tell me is that why these Hollywood relationships always like become huge and go away sometimes they do sometimes they work I live in Montana mo here’s my thing this Alex Rodriguez guy that she’s with Heart Rate super athlete smashes obviously it seems to be working they were together for a long time they’ve been together though months weeks just when she was with that little oh that’s right yeah she left know which one was that was the dancer that was the dancer can I take a quick this is like a kind of a PSA public service announcement we take a hard left in general Lopez and get ourselves over to Kanye real quick yeah we can but look at that Alex Rodriguez okay take a look at that.

Man Daniel Coyle super athlete probably got a dick like a goddamn baseball bat right anybody has that many buttons look at those top buttons coming down size of his fist this size that guy’s paw he’s at plus two hundred million dollar contract yes so he’s done four hundred Pakistani Rupees million dollars and a giant home with that bet Cornell Jenkins super athlete of course it’s gonna work it’s gonna smash put together let’s talk about hunting he knows that guy knows how to keep it together right that guy he knows everybody’s know and the balls come in his way he smashes that thing Jen I think Jennifer Lopez is not tolerating any losers in her life at this point all that’s left she’s out of fear but that’s all around look at that guy yeah there you go super athlete big giant hands I’m a big sports fan I came up when he was just he it was god a baseball guy they seemed to get along together see that makes sense to me just like it made sense with Val Kilmer was Batman that sense to me but what Ben Affleck was Ben Affleck I don’t know how his relationship was with her I don’t know maybe it was great it seemed like it was a tumultuous but I’m not I’m.

Just observing do I know nobody knows yeah but there’s like some people where you need to like have an online vote she this person forgot that the people will tell you they would not have voted I do not believe they would have voted for Ben Affleck right I do not believe here’s the problem like the rock too big for Batman here’s why because everybody would be like oh it’s you the rock you’re wearing a bat suit is that the wrong six nine would they could do that in the movie this they can make it funny be like yeah are you in the movie they can make it funny oh yeah right is this the rock are you the rock he could never be Superman it takes his glasses off like you she’s not a giant dude the last time works the last guy that was the Superman was an I was an unknown Henry yeah Superman they ran out they ran out of the well Zi it’s like if they try to make another Hulk people know enough you’ve had eight hulks they’re gonna keep making them through they’re gonna make a hundred more Star Wars in the next five years and you’re gonna have to sit through like Han Solo the pre cool the can they do.

That that make any sense because Harrison Ford was han Solo when Han Solo oh yeah but can’t just do that they just came out with a han Solo movie back on that last one didn’t was a flaw so hot yet they asked me just ask Joe I’m here for you Lucas george lucas’s oh now bathing and money he’s back in a warm wet money he just forgot listen to the podcast he uh just gets touched all day what is a sock Adam I can see oh they’re making up the rent a superhero’s is that Superman in the background that’s Superman in the background see that’s the DC Universe there he is look there is he looks good yeah but long as they don’t try to make him Superman is he a bad shot Jamie is he a bad guy or a good guy honestly I’ve never heard of this character so I have no idea where he fits in that I remember when Netflix came out with Luke Cage I was like wow that’s an obscure one that was a good one no but the Black Panther was good the Black Panther was kids a great movie yeah it’s amazing it took so long I’m like oh Black Panther movie racist took so long and it was a giant smash hit.

There you go white people get it together no comment Ben O’Brien in the conservative world has to be careful this podcast could sink his ship I’m Pro nuance yeah listen I think the way that I came up with it is because in the hunting world there is this speaking of conservative there’s this like there’s a conservative traditionalist right yeah and there’s the more progressive folks that you have met and been around you’ve been around both but around both that are environmentalist more Information Center public lands more access right so there’s kind of like – of course there’s always two sides in politics but there’s in this case two distinct sides right and the line kind of gets drawn around one a little bit around guns but also a little bit around the environment so yeah part of the biggest issue in politics for a hunter or angler right now is like I really like guns I like the Second Amendment I dig what’s going on there I’d like to support that but what I also like is healthy ecosystems environment and I like habitat for wild game to live in New Mexico public lands and access well it just so happens that a lot of the A+ rated.

Politicians for the NRA are like f – or D plus rated in protecting wildlife and wild lands a lot of that surround extraction and different like that but extraction of minerals oil and natural reefs for valuable lands right so then change the way these lands are scheduled yeah what it’s under yeah I mean there was a lot of those are around monuments of course that was big one but it’s just around like the general basis of even as a hunter but all Americans but as a hunter I’m faced with like I love wildlife I love wild places water clean lands I’m all that’s a huge part of what I believe it but I also believe in the Second Amendment I believe in my rights defend my family I believe in my right to own firearms and to do that so I believe in those two but because our politics are the way they are it leave room for those two beliefs when I’m at the voting booth sometimes it hardly leaves room for those beliefs in normal conversations with people unless you absolutely know that the person is going to be objective.

And as your shirt says Pro nuance this that caught the idea that you shouldn’t be able to defend your family is where it gets crazy yeah it get crazy that you want to be able to defend your family like why do these movies all have robberies break-ins and bad guys well why if these are real there’s a real yes so the idea that you should just be a sitting duck because there’s so many crazy out there that want to shoot up schools and go on mass shootings that somehow or another you’re being conflated with them that you’re being confused with them or categorized with them like how is that these are different they are just both involved guns they are they’re it’s like the insole that drove all those people in Toronto member that yep you know what if that keeps happening that’s happened many times you’ve seen kill people with cars over the last few years it’s been like four or five big events are they a mutually exclusive like I want to be able to defend my family and own firearms and have that freedom that’s a big part of this country but I also.

Don’t want people to die mass shootings I don’t want that I want and on the other side of the coin with when it comes like environmental issues and around hunting Washington State public lands and of that nature I want coal miners to have job I want people that working in extraction industries to have an opportunity to work live and do what they need to do but I also want to protect our ecosystems at all cost because you can’t replace that right and there’s got to be other jobs out there if the government put its resources instead to propping up old ways of doing business that pollute the environment versus new ways of doing business there are subsidies and yeah with government programs it’s entirely possible yeah they’re certainly reasonable and healthy ways to mine copper ore that they’re waste I don’t know there is I mean there’s responsible ways to do that but at what you know at what cost you’re still extracting right you’re still doing something do it you’re still changing the natural environment there yes someone was trying to make that argument with fracking with.

Me I was talking to him about that is it Josh Fox’s documentary what is uh he was on podcast the something fracking nation what was his he made a it was a very good documentary and it was he when I got him on the podcast was interesting because he seemed like he had been attacked a lot for it him even misunderstood like some of the questions I was asking yeah maybe they were coming from me and I was saying no this is just like what is it called fractionation what is it gasoline that’s it oh yeah okay um it’s disturbing you’re watching some aspects of it like when they were widened lighting their water on fire and then someone tried to say oh there’s some places where you’ve always been able to light your water on fire sounds like okay of lighting your argument someone said that that’s not really from walking I said okay these people said that there was no lighting the water on fire then people started fracking the water smelly they started lighting it on fire though you’re saying those are not connected over the years ago we’ve been able to light our water on fire for a number of reasons but before the July I.

Would think to be confident about that and I’m not confident about it but to be confident about what that guy said to me when he was saying that it’s always been like that you would to have done massive research you would have to a that time there you would have to been working either directly or indirectly with the scientists that are collecting the data I’m gonna have to get it yeah from them you’d have to know you’d have to see it don’t you were sure cursory way or you have to be a person who is not interested in the actual truth they just have an idea that they want to push through and this is a weird thing with certain right-wing folks there’s a weird thing they want to push through that business is good and environmentalists are all pussies hippies weirdos losers and these don’t jive in the world of someone who actually loves and appreciates the actual earth of course man because but there is no way that anyone could argue right there’s in the hunting world or some other like access and in public land and all these become a big deal but there you can define access in a ton of different ways.

Yeah to me access well to me access could be I like wilderness or did the only way you can access at his own foot via trailhead someone else might say access to me is elderly folks or disabled folks failing to get on into a car and drive through a road in public land or get into an ATV drive and so politics are being what they are politicians take this term of access it happened around White Sands national monuments they take one side said the president is stealing your land and the other side says the president is giving back your land somebody they’re either both sides are full of or one of them is I remember when this came up Patagonia which is a giant company that doors had a big ad on the internet that said the president saw your land and then I heard Rinella talk about and he said this is I I’m gonna paraphrase but he basically said if you say that the president still your land you’re not being careful with your words yes and you’re not being act you’re being inflammatory yes you’re being absolutely inflammatory yeah because it’s not again that you’re talking about Grand staircase-escalante in Lava Beds national monument bears ears national monitors in.

Utah being explained to people what happened boy I’ll do my best to show Thank You Ben so the antiquities Act let’s go back to the end take what exactly right it’s to protect the antiquities act is to protect culturally or socially but mostly culturally significant pieces of land it all the way to like the Grand Canyon right and so spin it up to the end of there’s a lot that I just skipped over but I’m gonna spin it up to the end of the Obama administration President Obama used his executive power to protect large swaths millions of acres around bit bout around National Park bears ears Bears Ears national monument to protect not only the significant places for Native Americans and for Native tribesmen around Grand Staircase bears ears but many millions of acres around that and so then it becomes the problem I have in the why that kind of that t-shirt exists it becomes a political football throw back and forth it’s not at this point in time what’s best for bears is what’s best for that Muir Woods national monument was best for it to be fairly owned what’s best for the people of jobs the place it becomes what’s best.

For each side in their rhetoric and so President Trump asked former secretary interior Ryan Zinke to review that I think it was like ten monuments to see if they should be reduced based on the predictions that Obama had put into place so he reviews these ten monuments he cuts out eight of them and hones in on two places Monument Map bears ears and grand staircase-escalante they then say we’re going to reduce the size of these when you say cuts out eight of them what do you mean by cuts out they review the other eight and say fine they’re good to go no change is necessary some would say they did that as a straw man as eight strong men and knock them over and look at those other two they said we will reduce the area that is designated as a Organ Pipe national monument and here again it comes to both sides they would say because President Obama wielded his powers corruptly protect to be as an environmentalist to protect lands that didn’t need protected under the antiquities act does say it should be the smallest acreage possible to protect so now you get into stuff that I’m not.

An expert in around legal jargon and going back to that were written in the 1930s but we get to a point where one side saying here is the Republicans trying to shrink down these monuments so that they can then go the companies that are can then go and lease these places for mining but they can’t currently do under protections as a Visitor Center national monument the other side is saying we’re trying to protect culturally significant lands and these millions of acres need protected they need protected for lots of reasons so you end up with those two sides talking now it’s easy to sort of make a high hyperbolic I always want to say that wrong get that back with the hyperbolic argument one way or the other right yeah you could kind of exaggerate your position one way or the other and it’s being done that way yeah it’s been done that way are they drilling there now what they’re listing let’s look that up but there’s some leases that were approved for Natural Bridges national monuments bears ears I know for sure see that’s one of the where people talk about the president have any real power there’s conquerors understand like yeah.

Oh really they have some there’s checks and balances but there’s executive orders that can come yeah listen I’m not the expert on this I’m sure I fumble through some of the details on that but to me the bottom line is something like that why I like to live in the Centers because something like that it becomes a thing that it becomes a PR hit yeah it becomes a thing that people are throwing back there throwing Salt Lake bears ears back and forth because at the end of Obama’s administration he made the designation and they repealed it or reversed it a year later right or some amount of time around a year later so it was only the way it was for a year then everybody’s making it look that’s a government stole your land it just brought it back to exactly where it was before but they did open up the possibility which is why Obama did in the first place yes they opened up the possibility for drilling and they did resource exhibition and that’s what scares the out of yes like there’s this – they’re in these situations there always seems to be spin on both sides and being a part of these.

Debates on a daily basis and being a part of this infant like it’s bringing in this information on daily basis it’s tiresome know you get tired yeah it’s hard of being pandered to by people getting tired of having to hear that this value system is right or this value system is right and there’s no room to be anywhere close to the center around this stuff so you just get is this tiresome you know South Dakota public lands are the only place where I look at it and say no you got to leave that to the government you got to leave it to the federal government no don’t leave it to the states it’s the only place I mean you know when I think about all the different with like legalization of marijuana and now they’re gonna legalize psilocybin apparently in Oregon they’re talking about doing that or like yeah leave it to the states they should be able to vote that in they should be able to vote in like all the crazy laws you have in weird states and some states have state taxes some states don’t it’s all good that’s not good but when it comes to like federal land the problem is if these states get into debt and this is.

What people need to understand they can sell it off yeah so that if Utah is in debt let’s i’m just not picking on utah but if they just for some reason they wind up in debt which states do all the time and then they sell off a giant chunk of land to some oil company now you can’t camp there anymore you can and by the way that’s your land and not a tax it’s not just utah that’s your land you live in Arizona you live in Florida that’s your land you live in Massachusetts it’s yours that land in Utah is the whole all of us they’ll collected human race living on Van Lines north american – this listen to hey this is like there’s a guy named Senator Mike Lee of the great state of Utah which you rightly put that a lot of these revolve around the Utah for some reason why they have a lot of the percentage of it’s like something that 70 of their acreage is controlled by the federal government that’s why Plus Mormons let me I’ll take the first point you take that so Senator Mike Lee comes out and says right this is like the perfect way to spend this type of thing starts he calls back to in.

Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah has also done this call back to like the sagebrush rebellion and like that calling back this it’s the saying that wilderness is akin to the European aristocracy because only a certain few can go there because you to have two working legs that can get you up into wilderness part of the basis of a speech he gave and is giving it several times is that public land and wilderness specifically it is akin to the European aristocracy because only certain folks can go there if you would open up access cut roads through then it would be for everyone so then it gets back to the semantics in the spin you know and the that politicians push forward try to convince you well they’re still he’s right in a certain way what he’s right in is that if you put roads through anybody could go through anytime they wanted on a car if they had legs no can barely walk if they are in a wheelchair normally but they can drive a car yeah they can go in deep into the woods and they can enjoy all of the wilderness they surely can’t stop that.

Is true however it’s not like there’s a lot of places that they can’t also go to they can go a lot of places where they can do that you can go to Yellowstone damn gorgeous you just drive through that and you see all the trees and the animals and Yellowstone is a wonderful proxy for going outside yeah it’s an introduction to what it is without really being in it yeah it’s like a zoo that’s free-range yeah is exactly what it is I live right I live an hour from there and I’ve taken my family there and it just feels like I used to feel like oh man this is an illicit place as somebody who’s gone into the wilderness and tackle these big challenges and hiked around in crazy places this Yellowstone is like it makes me feel uncomfortable then I somebody said to me like it was this guy named Cody rich who has a podcast called the rich outdoors he said to me like it’s I’m an ambassador for real wilderness hmm it’s like a way present to people that this thing exists without them having to actually strap on the pack get some trekking poles and hike miles up into the wilderness this is.

Part of the problem whenever you’re talking about the wilderness is so few people go to it yeah it’s like if we were talking about the surface of Mars with the people to create the rover well you know how the surface Mars is it gums up the wheels it’s Stefan’s red how many people are going to Mars how many people are really going to the wilderness yeah not that many there’s more people going to the wilderness than Mars but I’ve always said like the Management Act public lands movement and I am definitely part of it I feel like I could probably represent the money’s better but like I i’m definitely part of it it’s scary and a little in a lot of ways because people can say like keep it public man keep it public that’s like apple pie and bald eagles and freedom it’s an idea that we all pay into a thing we all own anybody right can go there it’s super easy to get on that train mm-hmm it is real easy to get on that train and lose your critical thought around what is the idea of wilderness I mean because when I think of my hunting now like we first went hunting like five or six years ago you would ask me this question I would given.

You a whole different what would you said then I don’t know what I would have said there but not this answer I might have said like were you a fairly youngish man I’m only going I’m green even 3133 oh you beautiful person yeah look at you oh I love you the perfect complexion look at you is if all your cells are firing correctly no liver spots yet this whiskey’s really it’s not by Irish so what do think you would have called it then so what I probably would have said like when we first went hunting and BC together from moose what I probably would have said would have been around it would have been less value-based and more like I’d do it because my dad did it I’d do because it connects me to my dad like dad family my people I do it because humanity did it talked we filmed a video remember sitting on the thing we talked a lot about our humanity right like the drawling back through the history of time when the hunter was exalted in a tribe of people was the only way to get me it’s the only way to get meat so your skills that you acquired as a hunter made you important to the culture.

The society the everyday life I would have probably called back to not that I would say that’s wrong now but what I’ve come to find out over some other years of hunting in a lot of places is that I think my hunting is more about healthy ecosystems now than it is about anything else I think all my efforts should be around water clean air places that we can go explore and what that brings to our world that brings more wildlife that brings places for my son to go and experience these and so I’ve changed over there’s a very short time and the way that I do it well the more you experience the wilderness and then go back to the city and then go back to wilderness the more you realize how special it is out there and the more you realize when like today I went flying in a helicopter over LA with me good friend bill burr and as he was taking me up I was looking at all this development we were talking about all these apartment complexes they’re being developed and he’s like yeah he goes you really see it when you’re up here in the air because you see where there was nothing and then like a couple weeks later it’ll be flat.

Now and then a couple weeks later they start construction you realize like oh this is how it spreads and that this is just something that people do and if you don’t put a line you know draw a line we’re gonna keep going we’re gonna make our way across the country and I’ve heard that argument from people that don’t go to the wilderness like look how much of the you know we don’t overpopulated look how much of the Marine Corps united states has no one living in it fly over and look down at all the places that don’t have cities and don’t have roads and don’t have houses like yeah for now none of this was here 200 years ago that’s what ploughed we plowed ground to plant the corn so you could have the you have well fly over in 1819 yeah you know fly over a two hundred years ago there was nothing here yeah it was zero I don’t know with Wilbur Wright yeah and Orville come on see what you saw but yeah if you get just go 300 years you have nothing you have zero yeah well that’s I think there’s some perspective and I think a honey has a lot going for it around the fact that has urbanization.

Happens you know as job being for me like as jobs become more prevalent in urban places and people have to travel from wherever they’re growing up to these urban places and live so removed from wilderness so removed from sustainability I think for a long time because hunting peaked in 1982 there was like seventeen point five million hunters around that year because of Ronald Reagan yeah as president I’d listen I’m I wasn’t even alive so let’s not I don’t know but like post-world War two there was a rise in the modern hunter or mountain sport hunter happy to describe it that there’s this rise in nineteen eighty two and then a precipitous fall right from there until 2016 there’s around 11 million hunters in this country it’s just like drop it’s a big drop and in I will always say that like the three that I think happened or urbanization so people are getting removed from they’re getting moved away from having hunting in their lives on a daily basis not that they’re anti hunting in any way they’re just getting removed from that thing than getting your meat on your own they removed from that a lot of times you.

Remove from like gardening and other types of sure sustainable use the other thing is Disney like Walt Disney’s a nice man but Bambi was not a good thing for our collective psyche around hunting not just Bambi but essentially all cartoons involving – animals were your friends yes even predators yes yogi was your friend he was your friend he were tied attack and he had a hat on yeah he’s not a picnic basket why did your picnic Jamie look I there was a guy there was a dude recently he was caught poaching in Missouri and the judge said that he had to watch Bambi once a month during his entire sentence why see if you find that is really that judge just needs a reality show he’s like oh I know what to do honey I know to do well make it watch Bambi he poached a deer this is a guy who like the whole other was like a whole family guys here we’re in like a poaching ring or something I read this on the way over here it is deer poacher sentence to watch Bambi every month during a year Missouri jail yeah this might be a judge that’s like.

Looking for a little fountain lazuli killed hundreds of deer sometimes taking over their heads and leaving the rest to rot Enfield’s ki how about you keep that guy in jail for more than a year there he is look at him David berry jr. look at him dork has been ordered to watch one thing man if that guy was killing him because he was poor and he was just Lyme Disease eating deer and that’s how he made his you know that’s how he got food that’s not the case I don’t care he chopped the heads off and that guy just anybody who does that anyway anybody who just wants to shoot something as damn delicious and massive as a deer could feed a family for months yeah of course it could you understand that but I mean the people listening or this do you understand that this who shot this thing hundred days head off you piece of you look forward to Mountain Lion eating deer and you shot it and you yeah anyways that’s like Walt Disney I think like that kind treatment of animals has been something that’s hurt honey and the third one is.

Hunters I’ve hurt themselves like that guy like maybe that’s a poacher not that guys way worse that’s a poacher not a hunter though but he’s a guy who’s hunting illegally that’s what the poaching is he’s honor yeah but like camping illegal he’s trespassing oh it’s not the safest yeah but you’re camping maybe I know you don’t want him to call him a hunter like you know like someone who goes on stage at a company picnic is not a comedian yes it’s the same thing I get it yeah no he’s still killing animals yeah he’s getting more than me that’s 100 yeah I’m a hunter and he’s killed more than this vicious murder that’s true he’s a piece of he is but that’s just like everything else man there’s people that are good Huber drivers and there’s something try to pull you under a bridge and your mouth this is bad people that’s a good point to bring up like is there time like I always bring up with hunting it’s like I owe somebody killed a giraffe or somebody yeah a guy killed the family baboons and made a photo I saw that do you see that not good that’s a primate bro yeah there’s nothing.

Good about that with the IDS never gonna be a well for you line it’s never gonna go well for you yeah no he didn’t put it online his I guess the credit that would give the guy who put it online the Idaho Statesman or whatever the Idaho local paper was a picture I don’t know proprietor one of the folks he sent an email out to some friends colleagues and of like recapping his hunt in Africa like here’s all the I did and he I think and from what my reading on the a guy and I got a lot of mutual friends with him so he’s a good guy he just screwed up maybe made a bad choice that’s a tough sell I would say so too but I should put him in a cell and make some monkey movies I think he knew like if I put this if I put this off plain of the Apes you know what the mark wahlberg plain of apes the reality of baboons and I have i’ve studied the work of Robert Sapolsky yes who’s a guy who’s been on the podcast before and it’s really pretty amazing stuff what they found out about baboons he studied actually because he actually studied a baboon tribe that the alpha males died off they were all.

Eating out of a poison Garbage Patch there was a garbage patch to that sick food in it and just bad food and the alpha males who got to eat first always chased there but they wound up dying off and for more than one generation I think with several generations they became like really peaceful calm and they weren’t the vicious violent baboons that are the norm yeah and that it’s really if you google it suppossed ski studies baboons and I in radio lab also had a podcast about it which is where I first heard about it and then I read what Sapolsky wrote about but it is unbelievably fascinating it shows how you can have this insane violent animal culture and then the cunts get removed and when the cunts get removed everybody chills the out and it’s really quite fascinating yeah but baboons for the most part I mean maybe he shot the nicest baboons ever but for the most part they’re a bunch of baby eating cunts and they’ll steal your kid that was a two-year-old that you loved so dearly that little.

A porch somewhere and if there’s baboons around they’ll snatch him and eat his head that’s like when I was in Africa I hunted Africa one time in my life and the our ph and our guide both said and our church is a professional hunter right the structure is like there’s a professional hunter which is essentially your guide and then there’s trackers which are usually native folks that help tracking the game spotting animals like that but our pH he was like if you see a baboon shoot it said we have area we have lots of irrigation here to maintain this ranch and they rip it up and they’re you know basically terrorists around you know coming around our camp messing with our fires messing with our food we leave you see shoot one and that was the instruction that I got and I never did but you know given that instruction from somebody that like hey this is a good thing for our landscape go and do it now that’s very far removed from stacking yeah like stack very far and with a big smile on your face holding a bow is it mate didn’t shoot a baby there’s some babies like a whole family.

Dude how you can’t they don’t stay in one place either you and I said like listen Joe here’s my plan what I’m gonna do is go to Africa hunt and then you know like I’m gonna shoot some baboons I mean it’s a good thing for this I’d be like don’t tell anybody yeah you’d be like told him don’t eight certainly don’t take a photo of you posing with an entire family of the deceased primate I had a friend who was in Africa and he got attacked by a baboon try steals food yeah I forget what the context of it was uh quite a few years ago but he said it was spooky he said they don’t seem like a monkey and they don’t seem like they seem like a dog monkey wild you ever see when they open their mouths yes it’s like a dog mouth it’s like dog a monkey like if you really like show a baboon let me see a baboon with its mouth open never thought of it that way but I’ll give it to you but they have a long stretched out mouth like a wolf or something not it’s like a yeah it’s not like a regular person they’re the real weird man they have all these characteristics that are of.

Primates but then they have this extra weirdness to them as well yeah and this wildness tune to what like the core of some guys oh my god I mean come on look at that that’s like a werewolf yeah that is a werewolf that’s like part look at face that lion blues cane and I can roll back but look at this even the shape of the jaw it’s very doglike it’s very elongated and doglike they’re very it’s a very strange animal look at that face man that is a crazy beast and my friend said I forget the story told some food and snarled at him and snatch something from him but he said it was very scary he said and you know it wasn’t even that big look like 60 70 pounds so I’m like that he said but it’s–but pending they’ll you up they’re not I will you know it’s different if you living around them it’s just these are different like we were talking about around the old media to incorporate offices the other day around how do you how do we as hunters who are around these animals all the time and how do we and something happens somebody gets mad about this guy killing all these baboons what do we say when.

There’s a hunting scandal yeah what I want ghosts do I say of course I let it go well most people don’t even know about yeah it hit the doubting world but that one was on like NBC CNN was this one went pretty big and there’s invariably these happen where how come that didn’t go big as Cecil stop and think about that because to me it’s more kind of up it’s more egregious than the Cecil thing was it’s a normal thing but think I just think we’re desensitized to it right Cecil came at a time where there was more sensitivity to and it just hit a news cycle like the Trump news cycle probably dominates any other thing that happens in the news but the reason why I say that Cecil’s normal I don’t think that’s good I don’t think you should just go over there in two lines but people been doing it forever yeah look if you asked me how many people go over there to hunt baboons I’d be like dude there really is that like a normal thing like this it seem normal right like even though I don’t you know have this conversation many times on this podcast I don’t think you.

Should shoot that you don’t eat unless there’s an E need in terms of like some sort of an imbalance like just as a joke imagine if Eagles were like rats yeah they were everywhere there’s a reason why you could just kill rats it’s because you have to yes okay this is what overpopulation looks like you put a trap in your garage and you smash the head of this living creature and you’re happy almost all that are categorized as rodents you do that – well not true.really right like squirrels a cute they’re a door yeah but if they just don’t get in your house but if there is yeah half a dozen squirrels in your garage and you could set traps and get them out of there you would but it’s a different thing like you’d feel bad if you stomped one probably I wouldn’t you’d stomp a rat like people still you’ve saw read your kid’s room you’d stomp that thing to death well yeah right if you saw a squirrel in your kitchen so why don’t you put those types of value I don’t apply those value systems to animals like that what because they’re overpopulated and because traditionally they’re been.

Carriers of plague yeah well the real reality the real story about the Black Plague is not just that the rats were caring but in fact that the ticks and the was it ticks or fleas that were on the rats we’re carrying the black plague I want to say it’s fleas could be and that this is how the bubonic plague got spread it got spread actually in fact through the ticks that were carried by the rats so what it is please Thank You Jaime with Google search the difference is that squirrels are not overpopulated and that Raptors are killing them off like left and right it’s a primary source of food for a lot of these flying Raptors yeah eagles hawks and stuff like that I’m sure a lot of other eat them too but enough balance out there but rats lock into us I mean they lived without us for a long time but once they found us they’re like oh look at this these dumb have holes in their ground you can live under their houses you just they put garbage out every day yeah just go jack they’re garbage you got plenty of food this is what we treat all types of.

very differently right and we apply our own specific feelings about these animals to them like the bear with a name know that it has name right the wolf with a name know it has a name it’s not aware that we’ve applied this special meaning to it know that we’re I still it our application of our feelings in our bug-like engendering this that change the nature of the wolf or the bear it will rip your face off it will kill as many elk as it can well there’s a real problem in depicting them the anthropomorphize a ssin of animals – picks them as your friends and that’s a hard thing to shake yeah there’s not that they’re bad and this is where the real problem with someone going around shooting baboons and posing like you did a great thing is it’s not that these animals are bad they should be respected understood and appreciated now if you are a part of a baboon cleanup crew like if you’re women I was listening to Rennell his podcast today and they were talking about kangaroos in Australia yeah and that there was a guy on the.

Show that had killed somewhere near was like 7,000 many thousands like his dad’s there was a what was it like there was a flood I’ll probably miss out there’s some sort of weather event that pushed all these kangaroos on to his dad’s ranch and status going out every day and just whacking at nauseam thousands of kangaroos and that they have to do this because they don’t have any natural predators and they they’ll just devastate landscapes and we played videos it would C be a fine one real quick play will get kicked off at YouTube probably right there’s a video of like a swarm of kangaroos in Australia dude I have no I had no idea yeah we were reading it about overpopulation I had no idea yeah it’s like 100 pound locust yeah that’s what it’s like I was reading I can’t remember the guys name but I was reading this paper just so I can see it I was reading don’t put it up on the YouTube I don’t want the kids to get mad how there it this is nothing this ain’t in comparison this is pretty crews this is pretty crazy but we were watching one when there was a swarm running across a field like look at that.

Bro that’s rats come on man if you saw that many rats in a field you would go I am gonna go get my gun and I’m gonna kill these rats right you wouldn’t tolerate that but these are sheep is our like the endangered species you guys comes into play here in a weird way because is our caring frame molls dictated by the number of the animal that there is it isn’t and it is see it’s not for us right we’re over here in the Valley of Southern very nice different ride brains have a good old time me buddy Ben O’Brien young Jaime wonderful its air conditions was fantastic fairness we live a good life here if Australia you’re killing us oh let me tell you like when I went Remy Warren our mutual friend first took me to New Zealand he took me to a sheep station a giant is the base a ranch base big sheep ranch we hunted fallow deer we there deer everywhere on the way out we met a guy then we call him the rabbit man or like he look like a superhero he was riding on like it’s just a two-stroke bike with like a rabbit hide covers for the handles he had a helmet on he was.

Like a superhero like a leather jacket and like a 22 and he was riding around his job was to ride around and shoot rabbits all night long every day seven days a week he had killed millions of rabbits millions and he would log every night come back and log a number of rabbits he killed they weren’t eating these rabbits it was population control these rabbits were or digging under fences these rabbits were destroying the landscape they couldn’t run sheep that the land was invaluable because these rabbits or it’s almost like turn-of-the-century America right we had some of the same situations but we met this guy whose job it was to with impunity kill as many rabbits as he possibly could a rabbit’s an invasive species down there they might be yeah well find out because this was New Zealand and most like there’s almost everything is non-native and as a crazy spot yeah that’s great first one of my favorite spots I could be on the board tourism for Newseum really young rabbits we’re introduced to Australia in 18th Hunter okay but what about New Zealand is it Jaime not being attention.

I can’t swim bro don’t swim but I bet it’s the same thing it’s the same thing I’m sure we never did get so deep into invasive species and number introduced you know European rabbit yeah they I think everything in New Zealand was introduced yes most sorry New Zealand really needs to kill these adorable rabbits yeah they have to by the way you can eat them the rabbits are delicious yeah I mean but it’s the problem as my daughter has a pet rabbit okay and we put it in this little cute cage and when it wants to come out and be held it puts this little pause on it makes noise you open the cage up take the rabbit out you know but little delicious you can’t go out and I love hunting rabbits man malicious but that I was reading this environmental I was a go theorists this guy I was talking about the types of hunting and I was reading this it like this is not this might be a smart guy but he don’t have it he was talking about three types of hunting therapeutic what is that James don’t I was in that piggie with the rabbits it said stoats.

Stowe what is it Keating it’s eating a nested bird yeah probably another look cute but acceptable you know that’s one of the that also I learned about from the meat-eater podcast is how many squirrels kill birds oh yeah they kill and eat birds that’s a big part of the decimation of the population of certain bird species is interested in squirrels it’s mice he’s a murderer that’s crazy that little thing eat a mouse that’s about what’s a rat it’s eating a rat that’s like his size on New Zealand think I believe so boom New Zealand murderer everything I’ve run into that was native to New Zealand was a Kia I was like a parrot that flies around was the thylacine native to New Zealand or just that’s Australia right that’s the Tasmanian tiger you know he’s 9 ounces just America what North America a little out here Merkin at night and stuff oh ok he got over here distinguished by oh he’s a weasel looks like larger size and longer tail with a prominent black tip it’s kind of weasel terrific level of carnivorous isn’t it funny that weasels are thought.

To be like a little weasel Weasley’s look at this weasel there he goes look at him yeah and weasels will up a cobra how about that look at him what is he doing that little rabbit Kuzco that’s how he’s killing look at the stoat kills rabbit ten times it sucks Christ two million views there it is look how small he is he’s chasing a rabbit that’s insane what a little ruthless probably online yeah don’t show it but when it seems very cute so should we do the play-by-play on lightest out Oh life stop doubt kill the rabbit 10 times doe torse down c1 I don’t know this is stowed er style I never run into this critter am I outside look at him go it really is 10 times the size ease don’t worry he’s kind of adorable though the way that he’s doing it ruthless look what’s he gonna do is you gonna go for the hindquarters like a wolf the other rabbit rider adopem does like captain save-a-ho over there I mean 100 that’s some pass by he’s going low how about the other rabbit just sits there was friends gets just dozens of rabbits that aren’t like let’s.

Gang up and get this stowed man how crazy is he try the XS that are really close to him oh now he goes where’s he going is he going like so he’s probably gonna hit those he’s gonna hit those hindquarters he’s gonna get some shock and some blood loss this ya know he’s going for though he’s always gone the gap since he’s gonna pull him down we’ll get blood loss and get you know he’s going home Joe Rogan he’s going up oh my god what’s going on is like this seem right the other I was just gonna look away you pussy we’re not friends and you’re gonna help your friend what a little monster oh that is so good easy he’s deep on it that is soap so he’s got his teeth for those I don’t know who’s watching but he’s got his teeth like behind the ears of this rabbit he’s killing it by biting the back of its neck and he literally is ten times smaller than that is it dead right there yeah the other rappers like Thank You BBC dorks help your friend that’s why you’re gonna go extinct you how about you turn up a bite him in the neck yeah I’m really good is.

It a stoat let out you think as a team seems like it would be stout yeah no but you would be stouts toast out ah stalled take that back whilst stout never seen one of those before my time outside you never know I didn’t even know it was a thing to their savage Oh their savage next thing you know they’re gonna be they’re gonna be like nipping at your calves trying to take you down that should be the American animal not an eagle no easels in Ireland and here I go everywhere else they’re called short tailed weasels Oh some kind of weasel yeah weasels are vicious little that’s what I’m saying like wire wheels like the week so you thought of him weasel in you didn’t think of him as being a ruthless killer or something 10 times no weasels are cute like if Pauly Shore was taken down giant huge 25 feet tall women die just smashing them you know like that would be what that’s a sweet little animal though but that even the way that um the weasel was chasing the rat was kind of cute like he was just bounded along ador was adorable so he would run by he was so mean you.

Would run by the other rabbits like he had hair determined about rabbit this brings up like we were on my podcast we had a guy on there named brandy Newberg you know about that Gandhi yeah Rhaenys awesome yeah that’s great losing Bozeman and he’s great and we were talking we did a deal about ethics and a lot of folks wrote in and they said I begin to hear what you think about this if an animal is wounded and say you’re up in a tree stand or you’re hunting you know spot in stock or you’ve been in the case of Randy hunting over a if you’re doing that and in you’re a hunter you hold the tag you can choose which animal you’d like to kill all right it’s rights you have a buck or doe male a female tag whether you can choose which one you want to kill if an animal comes by you that has been wounded clearly been wounded clearly struggling you know in the case of rainy Newberg he was sitting on a waterhole and I believe he was in Arizona and with a trophy tag which means there was a lot of big meal that you’re walking around a lot of big.

Antelope walking around in that situation pronghorn well let’s explain to people that are listening that don’t know what we’re talking about when he says a trophy tag what he means is there’s some units that are designated as trophy areas it mean you don’t eat them the animal what it does mean is that a it’s very difficult to get into this area you to have a certain amount of points which means you’re putting in to the pool of money that is conservation for habitat protection all you’re putting in every year try to get a tag and you could only get a tag in a lot of these places once a lifetime for some places Dan some places I’ve drawn be ten years on tags that are once every 15 years and it’s a very complicated point system but yeah with it but let’s explain why they do that they read that to preserve the population of big mature animals so that this you can’t just let anybody go in like there’s some places that are called over the counter yeah what an over-the-counter unit is they know that there’s a large healthy population of animals and they either the wildlife.

Biologists in the state representative they choose to just let anybody go in and when they think the animals are diminishing too much then they’ll put a cap on it but for now in over the counter unit yes and then they have places that are very difficult to draw units yeah and those difficult to draw units is one of the places where Randy Newberg was because he was looking for a big old mature animal that had spread its genetic and it stuff like the term trophy has been so weaponized that tough it’s my fault for using like when you I use it not in the term that most people think of it I think if trophies does a lot of different amateur animal that’s again once in a lifetime it takes some of the many years to draw I think you should just call it a limited draw unit yeah little draw you know hard to get area once-in-a-lifetime hunt where you’re never gonna hunt there again and you’re looking for the most unique animal that you can find the most mature animal that you can find but along the way yeah but along the way like in this case ethically he runs into a limping antelope pronghorn it comes into a.

Waterhole and it’s limping to the point where he thinks oh and this happens to a lot of hunters he’s like oh I have this tag I’ve waited a long time to get it it’s a very unique tag of course the way you explained it and would I you know I can eat this animal just the same as I would any other one but to add you know to exercise some mercy around this antelope that’s suffering clearly injured who knows how it got injured its limping up to a waterhole he’s having this ethical pondering in his head like should I dispatch this thing and ended suffering fill my tag this way because it with a tag in that nature you have a tag you can then choose to do anything you want with it in legal bounce sure you didn’t wound this animal so you could let that animal pass and choose a larger mature more impressive down and you let nature take its course whether a predation or not in the case of this one but winterkill or something may take that animal or you can and it’s quote-unquote suffering you don’t know we can’t talk to the animal I ask it its opinion but you can end what looks like it’s suffering and fill your tag in that.

that’s not the way normal hunts play out but a lot of hunters are put in that ethical situation it’s pretty rare but it can happen happens never happened to me but it was your answer so the his answer was to shoot that was the shoot that Anil I agree with that you know why cuz also here’s another possibility no antelopes come by yeah so if no antelopes come just by fate you don’t get an animal yeah so you spend seven days out there in the wilderness and you come home empty-handed you don’t have to eat an antelope yeah or you’re presented with this opportunity to be merciful to take this animal out that’s injured and you get to keep an antelope and although it’s not the antelope that you dreamed of is something about but it’s still healthy no yeah and you get to feel good the fact that you really did yeah you put an animal out of its misery and we all like mercies of virtue Yeah right it’s for sure we all would like to you know behave like and I said this and Randy kind of we talked through it but I said that this is a unique situation to a hunter if you’re a hiker.

And you come across an animal wounded injured in this way there’s very little you can do yeah but this is unique to the hunters responsibility to look at this animal and make this decision here’s another argument is you really should do nothing because those the animals that are designated to be taken out by the Predators and you want to keep the predator popular thing that was more my Randi’s answer like we went back and forth course and I see both sides I see both sides – and I think this that’s one of those situations whereas a hunter there was a you know I’ll go back there’s another podcast a date with a guy named du shawnsmith Tana and he is his real name this is really he’s finding sean’s Montana who shot Smith down he’s from Czechoslovakia he’s a outdoor photographer and he’s a dope individual it a wonderful him better be with that name okay he lives up to that in a sporting man he’s like cynthaiz fire like let me say sip eyes fire and his busy wear handmade boots of course he does Joe out of here what do you think he’s wearing you would.

Make his own moccasins the most interesting man they were he’s very much this he like so I did a podcast when we sat by his fire and we drank plum brandy that he makes himself of course does really look he makes his own honey he has Icelandic sheep that he’s shears and eats he does asada he kills a lamb or love and feeds everyone Asad wonderful human being he grew up in Czechoslovakia and part of describing his growing up is like in there’s a term and I’ll butcher the pronunciation of it but Mick Levesque is the term that he used to describe a hunter as like hunter or the one who thinks and the way he described cultures the cultural significance of a hunter and his you know when he was growing up in the late 80’s and Czechoslovakia was that the Hunter had to be was the judge and jury so there was like a reverence around hunting a reverence around a hunter because that hunter got the privilege in his culture to be the judge and jury for what animal gets taken out of the herd like making that very serious decision to say this animal is wounded this animal is too old.

This animal is young enough right you’ve talked about a lot on this podcast very uh some other smart hunters that I think what hunting needs to become now that it isn’t is this exalted status in our society where they think at we’re giving somebody with a hunting tag or hunting license you’re giving somebody the opportunity to make a decision about something’s life well you see salt at status the problem is you don’t have to earn that status right it’s like right you could just go out and do it and one of the that I’ve found out about hunting that is I don’t know if a sense are surprising but it’s very difficult to express without personal experience is that it the consequence or it’s so different than what you would think it’s very difficult to do it’s very physically exhausting the consequences of your actions are so grave and the rewards are so much different than any other way of acquiring food even fishing which I love fishing I love fish I like to eat them they’re delicious I like to catch them they’re fun I like catching fish it’s not the same there’s something that we and I don’t think this.

Is a learned thing I think there’s a connection difficult to acquire mammals that goes deep in our DNA and I think this is the reason why we I think one of the reasons why we enjoy fishing is because those reward systems were put in place by people that survived by eating fish yeah all those generations of people that did catch fish and that was how they ate day that excitement lives inside of and you sparked that up when you get a big steelhead on the line right you hear that real go because you’re being informed they’re being informed by people that didn’t have a choice man it’s like it had to have that fish to live exactly so even though it’s recreation to you it’s a thrilling recreation but then the consequences aren’t as grave there’s something about a wounded deer or a wounded elk that is so horrific and a merciful killing that is it’s so such a relief it’s there’s something powerful about it like I told you I that elk yeah that it’s out there that it walked four yards yeah and I’m not exaggerating four yards and fell over it was dead that like and the guys who.

Were there they said it was quicker than any rifle shot they had ever seen an elk died so they usually stand up longer from that that’s what everybody wants that a horse say wants it they want attention they do but if I catch a fish and he’s I pull him out of the water and throw him on the ice and he’s flopping around for a few hours I’m just happy I got him yeah it’s different well they’d like you’ve had Michael Pollan on the show before he wrote that Omnivore’s Dilemma and in it he was just said basically in a paraphrasing but he said it honey is so different from the inside this from the outside yes so easy to view honey in the lens of like there’s a dude sitting behind a deer smiling and grabbing its antlers there’s also the problem that malnutrition in this country is almost non-existent fat people are poor people in this country yes like poor people are fat yeah which is one of the weirder about our society this is never hurt this has never happened in the history of human beings that the poor people were the big fat ones I got cell phones I mean there’s a lot of rich people that are fat too don’t get me.

Wrong but there’s it’s people don’t have a problem being fat sure right and this mean that there’s not a lot of malnutrition there most certainly is but nutrition it’s not this is not a lack of calories lack of calories was a massive problem throughout most of you more history the lack of food so it’s the access to food is so normal to us it’s so easy but the unfettered access to food is what’s really normal now yeah that’s what’s change but the dust realization and come fast food is processed food is yeah even if you go back to people when hunting was more normal in the 1920s or the 1930s what was really normal there’s also no fast food yeah so when you would get a roast even if you went into a butcher and you got a roast and you brought it home and you were making roast beef and you’re cooking it or your uncle shot a deer was the last time milk was delivered to your door yeah right not my dad you know so there’s a lot of different it is it’s wrong yeah so there’s a lot of different yeah like the removal from the actual you know process that hunters go through but actually it might not have been wrong.

Like when they start pasteurizing marginalization that’s a Jamie thing that was a Louie pest or that is Esther ization right that’s what it came from yeah um when they start implementing that like when you would get the milk on your door in those glass jars didn’t that milk go bad quick though but that’s me you know my grandparents that’s what they would describe the milkman these 1880s so when it started that’s what started I wonder when it was common I wonder if it was what you think about like market hunting we always talk about hunting like the turn of the century being this huge moment and hunting conservation market hunting really became a thing when it accelerated when refrigeration became a reality right and accelerated when railroads could take meat from the great American West back to the cities in the East Coast hmm so those like Excel or that technology and those accelerated market hunting and the depredation of like the white-tailed deer and the Buffalo as we all same as here I’m just trying to flavor this in the context of most.

People that hear these conversations don’t really know what we’re talking about yeah so you you’re obviously well versed in this but for a lot of folks they don’t understand that what happened was after the Civil War in particular there’s a lot of soldiers they weren’t fighting anymore in the war and they got jobs as hunters and they would just go out with no rules and shoot as many animals as they wanted and we that the term we call that is market hunting and there the market hunting means that they’re out hunting for marketing the meat or marketing the hides of marketing parts of the animal to sometimes just a tongue that would ship Buffalo’s for just a tongue yep so in that time in our at the turn of the century right 1880s and turn-of-the-century we had mass killings of people just think a buffalo really but white-tailed deer mallard duck wild turkey elk black bear Hey look at that Jesus Christ yes this is we’re looking at a photograph of like so many animals just hanging from these ox there and Leslie does looks like all ducks I don’t see anything yet but there’s.

There’s nothing there’s ol what are those Easter eggs like bears those are all ducks yeah so there’s you’re all deer market hunting beer but they decimated massive just quantities of these wild game and yes they were like the share pair there’s more white health here today than when Christopher Columbus landed on this yea continent at the time yeah at the turn of the century went at the height of the marketing crisis in this country there were enough there were enough white-tailed deer that they probably would have been on the endangered species list or been close and so the model of conservation that we then enacted I don’t want to say like I don’t want to over exert such people have never heard of it but if you look at the if you look up Jamie the Tour Dates north Bad Blood american model of wildlife conservation there was a ton of key figures and taking what America had at that point which was basically the Wild West where animals are dying at mass and with railroads and refrigeration like we said they’re then feeding and clothing at that time the masses in the urban settings you know in.

New York and different places but as these centuries turned over and you get into the teens and 20s guys like Teddy Roosevelt gift for Pinochet they’re you know john muir there was a bunch of figures who essentially kicked off what is america’s conservation movement the movement to conserve not only the wildlife populations but wild lands and wild waters and significant places in this country that we needed to protect because around the turn of the century we did not have that feeling of value as a society there wasn’t like we have to go value that thing we’ve never seen because you could see it right and so that we were went they set about building a value structure for not only wildlife but wild places and they also set about a play that the user would pay for this conservation and these are the constructs of what we now know to be the Tour 2013 north Corporate Governance american model of wildlife conservation which I mean this is if you look at it today it’s like one of the most successful and like the seminal systems of conservation in the world in the world it wasn’t really codified.

Until the 80s till guys like Valery’s dr. Blair Geist and Shane Mahoney and folks wrote it down and said this is what it is but pull if you could pull up the tenets of the Trade Agreement north United Nations american model because I could list them off but Tour 2012 north Wildlife Conservation american model of conservation wildlife as public trust resources elimination of markets for game-like that’s why people say hey where can I buy some elk you can’t you can buy it can zealand wildlife is a public trust that just basically means the state’s hold the wildlife in trust for the public these animals belong to us state holds them in trust and manage them in trust for us now for people that have a problem that as an idea that we would own a living thing the only reason for that is to protect those living I understand on semantics that you would have issue with you know humans shouldn’t own life man yeah we don’t and maybe own is the wrong word to use breath maybe own is the wrong word to use but it’s like manage and cohabitate with maybe that’s the better way to say this too being by looks whether we protect them or whether we decimate them right we are stewards.

Of the land we are ones the monkeys with the guns well that’s just if we have the ability to say here is this number of animals here’s this number of land here’s how we encourage upon that land right let’s study that make sure that’s all good yes and then let’s manage it as actively manage it as hunters and anglers to make sure the carrying capacity of this land meets the wildlife populations everything is working in order it’s the sustainable use of natural resource that’s what hunting is if you anybody ask you like hey dude what’s hunting you say hunting in the Tour 2014 north Engineering Society american model is the sustainable use of a natural resource yes to eat elimination of markets for game we covered Trevor none of these animals that we’re talking about whether you’re eating black bear or whether you’re Bald Eagle eating deer you cannot buy that stuff if you buy it you’re gonna get farm raised meat and most of it is from New Zealand yep allocation of wildlife by law right there’s laws right there is a-there law to say how many animals you can kill if you just like that fellow in Missouri.

That’s got to watch Bambi if you kill more than grossed kill you’re a poacher now you’ve broken the law and the law is dictated most really good states like Montana by wildlife biologists conservationists and people that understand the population what’s a healthy population for the area yep and how to maintain a correct balance and there’s a real science to that folks yeah you know the science of when you talk to wildlife biologists about this I mean we had a great podcast with Doug durin yeah and Brian love science last name love Doug Dern was a can’t remember my brain but we were talking about CWD chronic wasting disease the spread of it amongst wild animals and then just Brian Richards shout out to Brian Richards and me pal Doug durin but I’ll be Doug you’re great keep fighting that Coad fight over there so what we talked about was the actual science behind yeah this one particular issue but you grow to appreciate when you hear someone like him talk they grow to appreciate the complex nature of wildlife biology and maintaining the populations of animals keeping keeping.

Them healthy and making sure that these habitats are preserved this is very complicated stuff oh it’s impossible to really understand the scope of these like you to take Wyoming or Montana yeah we tend to cordon off we really care about like grizzly bears and the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem you really care about that that’s the thing to talk about but really what we should talk about is in really what most wildlife managers are looking at it’s like biodiversity health of all while like populations and it redditor prey balance that is a prey balance like these are that we’ve set about in this model of conservation to say like we’re not just by license we are using science and biology to dictate the way in which hunting is used to benefit these popular let’s go Jamie googling wildlife can only be killed for a legitimate purpose that kind of says it all right it does but that what does that mean is where it gets weird with people like here’s one he goes what people get really crazy they’ll get really crazy when you kill predators right even if you’re gonna eat them like.

I was looking at Adam green trees page and found a tree shot a cougar did he send you that mine he has not he’s gonna be here and we’re gonna cook it together well we’re gonna cook some mountain lion backs right here till it’s delicious I’ve never had you have I haven’t had it like that I’ve shot but someone else prepared say you here tell but you have had I have had it and it’s you being coy I’m not being coy at all right here – I hear – I like to sound folksy so people others know that but no I ask that is superb it’s like lean delicate and it gets like pork almost it’s really good and then people will go crazy like why are you killing that yeah do you understand how it is that you have zero problem with someone killing a deer but you have a problem someone killing a mountain lion and this is a real issue you have a problem someone killing something that will for sure kill you if it catches you alone in the forest yeah for sure kill your dog for sure kill your kids definitely kill those cute little deer and kill a shitload of them absolutely one every couple of days.

For its entire life and forever they’re experts at it and for whatever reason we get in our head that if and I think this comes from this whole idea of trophy hunting yeah that if you kill something like that you’re only killing that thing because you have a little dick it work there must be a big man so you kill this thing that’s better than you isn’t there in this beautiful animal the definition of a surface level examination it is but it isn’t because this is the this is the narrative that’s been pushed through all the channels they don’t unless they go out and research this stuff objectively in-depth and why would you they can’t just let me let’s be devil’s advocate why would you if you’re an accountant what do I want to look into the subtleties of predator hunting yes to keep that up please why do I want it why do I give a about that like why don’t I get some assholes wants to shoot mountain lions look crazy always gonna use dogs oh wow fair that’s so unfair we talk for well can we talk for a minute about baiting bears yes well that’s can we want to keep legitimate purpose let’s keep right.

Being I read if you want to keep that down for the light is that was oh just put it back up when you will get to it there’s a Redis I’ve read stories you and I baited it went hunting for bears baited before and so I’ve heard a lot of we in hunting they have a term Deer Hunting fair chase which means legitimate you know reason for the ability for the answer escape your hunting then when all fairness in the pursuit people beat up on baited bear hunting a lot probably because bears are involved probably because it seems unfair to sit in a chair and put out some doughnuts or put out some a dead beaver put out whatever attracts a bear to put a smell out into forest the bear smells it comes to eat and you’re there to kill it that seems like what lazy seems like this seems a lot of cheating so people would say that’s not Whitetail Hunts fair chase that’s not ethical right and in some ways I agree with that in comparison to other ways of hunting right but at the same time I could say I can tell you this there’s no more ethical if the idea is to kill the animal kill the right animal especially in bear hunt and you’re trying to.

Kill a specific bore a male bear that is Holder Pass breeding anybody who’s bear hunting will tell you one of the hardest to judge when it’s on while it’s living is a bear whether it’s a male or a female how big it is how old they are hard to judge because they’re black they slide through the forest they’ll look they don’t stay there’s no markers like if the bear is standing next to a Volkswagen bug yeah you go oh okay I know how big a bug is that’s right now how big the Bears that’s right the bear is next to some treat it’s a hundred yards away you really can’t tell it’s hard so spotting and stalking what we call spotting and stalking which is like walking around trying to find a bear looking at it far away and getting close enough to kill it whether it’s with a rifle or a bow there’s a lot of problems with what seems to be a fair way to achieve the pursuit of that animal there’s a ton of problems around that because they’re hard to judge you could come up on a sow female bear that has Cubs in a bush he’s not see the Cubs not know that it’s a sow you’re far away with a rifle crack you kill it two.

Cubs ran out of the bush that is not what you were trying to do you made a mistake there in the scenario where you are at a bait site this animal comes in it’s walking around very close to where are you get to judge it you get to look between its legs see if it has a dick or not and then just determine it’s the animal you want to and dispatch it ethically because it’s closer to you it’s twenty yards it’s stabilized a lot of times it hopefully know you’re there rather than doing it from further away tor having to stalk close to it so I say all this to say like this is complex what you think might be Hog Hunting fair chase what think you might want to apply your own you know levels of fairness to always equal the reality of pursuing that animal if the end game is to dispatch it fairly and kill it fairly bears are a very unique animal in the boat in that there’s so much more criticism because of teddy bears Yogi and coca-cola commercials we have this idea of what a bear is yes and it’s also the thing is eat and this is hard for people to accept those old boars that we’re trying to kill.

There if you kill them it’s better for the whole population of bears because they eat bears now this is where it gets really up and you know it’s my friend Jonathan who is you met John and Jen of course we’re up there with them Jonathan their son saw one of the Bears kill and start consuming a cub oh yeah a female scared the bear off and then ate her own kid yeah you listen my podcast I got a guy named Cole Kramer who I’ve hunted on Kodiak Island with he’s seen bear he’s seen male bears chase down south run him into a cave rip I mean he’s watched and ripped Cubs and gripped them in half and eat them and spit them out like yeah you know and once you’ve seen that you’re you know no matter how many bear cartoons we show no matter how many times a bear has suspenders owning is talking to us it change no matter how many times we name a bear it change the bareness of the animal it change its prime different animal it’s a different kind so there’s nothing we can do to change bear being a bear I don’t think there’s.

Any evidence that they don’t eat their own kids either yeah I don’t think there is right I mean I’m sure somebody you know some way more educated me can tell you exactly what’s happening there but we know you and I both know that they’re killing those two they’re killing as many causes they can to get this out to come back at Heat they’re doing that and they’re also doing it for food is what they eat them and they also try to bring the south back and Astro so using is you talked about this before like hunters are in a specific you know are in a really interesting position to have seen to see these and be intimate with these animals which is a if you just explain what you explain to most people they would just snap what yeah they’re cannibals 100 of them accountable yeah even the ones that were suspenders like is it it’s this I think what non-owners want from hunters is to one say listen this is a complex thing that we’re doing right we’re going into a wild place and removing from it something we didn’t put there that serious but that’s not we shouldn’t be nonchalant about that we shouldn’t celebrate it in ways that make.

It seem irreverent like that right we should understand it’s serious and take that action seriously we should be you know again that guy do Sean in he was explaining in Czechoslovakia to go hunting you had to go take a class and learn flora fauna and learn how many pheasant eggs were in a nest and really yeah and then once you became a hunter in the terms that they describe it then you had to like it was the amount of work you put into the forest that denoted what you could then hunt you know so if you went to cut down this many trees you could go hunt a deer if you only did one certain thing you could hunt a rabbit like they had this yeah he describes it as this like interaction with so that was their nature servation model that was her model conservation was very much like accountability and so I think what most non hunters want from hunters because for me I don’t think about anti hunters much as I think about somebody who just is smart thoughtful he’s never been you were this way at some point sure you’re like person who really thought hard about what you were eating and wanted to.

Explore what is happening here yeah and is there alternative ways so I think what non-owners want from hunters is for us to say listen we get it’s complex we get it’s a serious thing and we’re doing our best to unpack the moral and ethical entanglements and what we do yeah and it’s not easy I mean we flush pheasants when we could shoot them on the ground and that’s the way we do what we call that Hog Hunts fair chase but we don’t like when an animal comes close enough to us and eats the corn and we can shoot it like we don’t like that either so these are just entangled there it’s hard to it’s a hard activity to reckon with well the baiting part of it is it it’s absolutely not as good yes I’m not saying I’m out there bait in every animal but I’m saying I can just see as like a somebody that likes the nuance of this and likes to explore this and likes to ask yeah why is it that that’s the case why is it do we look down on people that bait animals and or use dogs no we’re used dogs so same reason they do it for the exact same reason yeah no they get a close-up ethical shot and the difficult to pursue.

An animal yeah it’s all it always gives back to like those the reasons we do what we do but again I would hope that everybody listening this lots of people do that don’t hunt that they would ask themselves like what do I what do I expect from Hunter’s like what is the thing that I expect you do to earn because I very much feel as a hunter I need to earn the respect of the non hunter yeah like I have a I have a duty to my hunting community to actively earn the respect of every non hunter I run into I feel like I got to do it and maybe I’m just making it harder for myself but I feel like there’s it’s an almost impossible task yeah but I’ve done you’ve probably done it I’ve done it on a one-to-one level yeah I definitely have flipped people especially easy you’re it’s much easier when they eat yeah meat it makes sense yes but then they’ll still have a problem with the bear thing and the bear thing is one you got to sit them down with like I don’t prefer to hunt bears I don’t in any way cuz don’t I get weirded out about trichinosis it’s just the meat is not as good to me yeah.

It’s good it tastes great you have a nice roast or bear stir-fry or something it is delicious it’s not like you spit it out but it’s not also like comparative to Alec it’s like okay yeah you can’t even have it medium rare which is the best way to eat meat that’s right so it’s not the same to me but if I lived lucky on Alberta where John and Jenn live I would realize it’s imperative you have to do and if you do like to eat elk and if you do like to eat deer and if you do like deep moose is really a responsibility to hunt bear yeah because they kill 50 percent of all the moose calves the elk calves and the deer fawns fifty percent get killed by black bear now here’s the other thing you could say well that’s because Nature has balance and the reason why they’re there is so those deer don’t look like those kangaroo in that Park and that’s true – yeah that’s true – they’re right and I think it’s our job to not have any sort of bias when it comes to our examination of this information whether it’s flattering or not we have to be able to look at this objectively we got to be pragmatic yes have to and you have to be honest and I.

Think this is you have to address the complexity you have to realize that this is very complex but guess what if you wear leather shoes you got leather clothes you got a leather interior in your car you’re eating cheeseburgers you should probably shut we are human consumption engines we breathe in we breathe out we consume the world around us that’s the way it works as you always say yes life and that but the reality of the situation for me is like I’ve tried to not stray away from but try to add on to the pragmatic arguments for hunting oh yeah so try to examine like the emotional issues we have around caring for the single animal every caring for the entire species of that animal or in case subspecies of it yeah like that that’s me something I’ve tried to add on like let’s first start with pragmatic arguments like you eat meat you’re killing like why aren’t you thinking hard as I’m thinking about this and in I really would love to build a bridge with people to say I care like if you’re in let’s say you’re an anti hunter and you love animal you’re a vegan even a lot of.

Conversations are obedient I’m a vegan I really care about animals they’re sentient beings they all deserve life put that person in front of me and then I’ll stand right beside them and be like I agree with you I agree that all animals are sentient beings I agree that they all deserve life I and then I go to preserve that life for that animal that’s what I go to do we start me in that anti Hunter I’m a hunter start at the same point and over the years sort of sword that it’s cool those animals I do so that eliminates you from their side but that it’s only yes because your diet but you’re an animal consuming machine this person is an animal consuming machine they’re just not admitting it they just don’t understand they just don’t understand any machine because they don’t organically garden yes they organically garden and need everything that they grow themselves even then it’s hard to detach yourself from your consumption of the world yes aren’t like what’s in your compost bro yeah if makes it easier for you let’s just leave the vegan and the conversations say the non hunter yes it’s like I don’t.

Kill anals myself but I care about him I’m like I care about him and I kill him we’re at the same like if you remove the second part of sentence the first part is I care about him right we both care about animals are standing at one point and over time whether it’s mass media or just the way hunting has been marketed in the poor PR agent that had we’ve kind of walked away from each other right we started with we both care about animals that we’ve kind of walked away from each other and over time we’ve been unwilling to turn around and face each other and be like remember when we started out thinking we all value these animals we value their lives we all care about them hunting is just a our version and it’s worked given that model of conservation we were talking about it’s worked for the white-tailed deer and the mallard duck it’s worked there’s more than ever I’m just doing it a different way than you’ve chosen to do it I’m doing it in a more proactive way than you’ve chosen you know think about it and so I would if a vegan came up to me and be like listen man there we have more similarities in my opinion than we.

Do differences we’ve just chosen difference the one big fat thing that’s different it’s the difference though it’s the most important difference you want to kill animals and eat them they don’t think you should be allowed to they don’t think it’s right they don’t think it’s moral they don’t think it’s an ethical yeah just think everything is wrong like what you’re doing okay we both care about animals that is a up way to look at I care about people too I just like to eat them okay great I’m gonna be President but I’m gonna eat five people I don’t know we got a lot of people imagine if you run for president say I really love people but I like to eat them it was a well they’re those are people don’t eat them I would say I’m telling you that by taking the lives of these few animals I’m working on the full breadth of this will tell if you really cared you just donate the money you just donate the money to conservation the pittman-robertson Act just I’m still feeling my family I’m still making myself a better person I’m still enriching my life so don’t tell me I don’t have the right to do that.

Because you think animals are sentient you’re still killing animals by driving on roads and eating corn and doing the you’re doing right but they’re not directly killing them by their food choices well they don’t know they are that way so indoors like proxy killing is better than actual killing well consciously right okay actual consciously killing or buying something that’s actually consciously killed is different then if you buy slick if you buy soy if you eat tofu there a fact and that fact is there has to be a lot of animal displacement in order to make that amount of field available to grow soy and yeah or to grow soybeans in it’s just a fact and then when you talk to anybody that’s ever seen what happens when a crop gets hit by a combine and then the vultures start flying overhead there’s a reason because there’s a bunch of little squirrels rabbits and all sorts of that just got ground up and anything else that gets stuck yeah in that field as those gigantic machines come whirring by and what that’s how when you’re talking about large-scale agriculture that’s how are harvested of.

Course they’re not plucked by one now if you’re one of those people that has an organic garden and you pluck by one you take your rotten apple cores and your orange peels and you throw it all in a compost pile with some dead leaves and you use that as fertilizer you’re gonna run out of the nitrogen because you need folks guess what when you buy fertilizer it’s dead fish this look there’s a unusual cycle it’s really weird but that cycle is that dead animals actually fuel the plants that you consume so if you’re a person that is you know if you’re even if you’re eating wild plants right you want to eat some wild plants guarantees them dead squirrels rats pigeons and anything else went to fertilize fertilizer you probably had that I mean they’ve proven that there’s salmon DNA sometimes in plants because those plants have actually used salmon for a fertilizer people have used that those dead fish and that gets into the plants themselves yeah so it’s all very strange I said there’s no way out man there’s no way out of this like but in their eyes even there’s no way out it’s the out it’s the path of least pain.

And suffering and I would sell those folks I respect the out of that and I’m trying to do I’m trying to take my own this into my own hands and actively go and do the thing that I know to be enriching to my life to make me a better person to make me a more skilled person to give me more perspective on the world but at the end of day the byproducts of all that activity is a healthier ecosystem and more wildlife because that’s proven via the model we’ve said and I feed my family with that and I’m just trying to do what you’re doing in a more tangible way your hands off I’m hands-on is the way that I would say that and I respect the hands-off I respect like the I’m cognizant of what’s happening here and I’m trying to make it better I respect that I feel what you’re saying and I see what you’re trying to do but if I’m thinking through the eyes of a vegan you can go yourself I’m being the nice guy didn’t you cream a dick that’s like vegans a lot of them are dicks okay any animals you’re killing animals think you get a three to just kill animals and time you bond or you don’t some of them so I like.

This devil’s advocate side of you Joe thank did you see my mobiie you ever look at mommy’s page never Elmo has a wonderful Instagram page never that somebody’s something that was so preposterous the other day and I read the comments under and I was like this is so hilarious about eggs and this is what it said I mean first of all folks you come talking to a person who has chickens eggs are like the most Karma free thing says eggs cannot legally be labeled as healthy nutritious or safe to eat first of all this is true because eggs are full of cholesterol and saturated fat and because every year 100,000 people in the u.s. contract some vanilla from eggs they cannot legally be advertised as healthier safer nutritious okay first of all that’s not true okay I don’t know why you posted that Moby you didn’t look into it is there something called quality how many people get from eggs every year because if it was a hundred thousand the that should be in the news I would collapse so goddamn fast so let’s dismantle I got a please go ahead do that just dismantle this preposterous idea that a hundred.

Thousand people get salmonella okay here even with safety steps in place it is estimated that about one in 20,000 or 1 in 10,000 eggs are contaminated with wow that’s a lot is mommy right what does he what did he say 100,000 people get it right but we see if you could find how many people in the US contract Sal Manila because if they find out that this Salmonella in eggs are they finding out that’s from uncooked eggs every year about a million people get Salmonella infected from foods that have been contaminated by one of the many kinds of salmonella is he right okay let’s see if it’s a hundred thousand people from eggs how many people per year gets Salmonella from eggs where does it say Salmonella in the Bankruptcy Court united states 142 thousand people in the New York united states are infected each year with Salmonella whoa hold on that says from chicken eggs wait a minute 142 thousand people the Health Care united states are infected each year with Salmonella from chicken eggs and about 30 died dude not only is Moby nothing movie right but he’s off by 42,000 now you’re gonna be.

Way more of a devil’s advocate I’m gonna hit you heart with this devil’s all right let’s go would you do don’t have any egg are the egg related kind of okay oh yeah salmonellosis that’s it guess what it is when you get it so we found yep not always it true it’s from 2010 maybe it’s different in 2018 142 thousand people the Fifty Nifty united states are infected each year with Salmonella and enter or itis right Rytas and it s a neuritis from chicken eggs and about 30 died so he lost 30 pussies in 2010 an analysis of death certificate joking more director of joking it’s just a joke asami podcast we’re in the comedy section of iTunes identified 1316 Salmonella related deaths from 1990 to 2006 whoa now thanks moby but this is a problem these dummies are eating them raw this is what I want you to google how nutritious are eggs how about Google this because a lot of ways to look at this such a regional life I’ve never gotten salmon they look pretty good look at you doing fine by the way if you eat chicken raw you get – stupid you’re not supposed to eat it rice was to cook it okay one egg has only 75 hours but seven grams of high.

Quality protein 5 grams of fat and 1.6 grams of saturated fat along with iron vitamins minerals and character carotenoids the egg is a powerhouse of disease fighting nutrients like lutein and zeaxanthin ok movie so shut the up they’re super nutritious for you just occasional back off Moby somebody gets salmonella how about just cook your cooking if you’re egg bro but here’s where it gets really dark watch Google this how many people die every year from eco live from vegetables that’s right cuz a shitload anti corn is actually from farmed animals it’s actually from an agriculture runoff and let’s Google how much methane comes from how much methane comes from vegans broccoli yeah like hell let’s go back to this like where do you play the V he’s not just right he’s more than 40-thousand right Moby please just six degrees of Moby that’s like edit your post with the correct you’re right about like eggs are dangerous Pro don’t lean them wrong good diet don’t need them raw stupid okay here it goes CDC estimates 260 265 thousand infections occur each year in the United.

States of ecoli Wow 36 are caused by E coli zero one five seven point h7 dude it’s almost all from animal agriculture it’s almost all from water here types of e.coli that can cause illness can be transmitted through contaminated water or food to contract animals or people yeah but when they say contaminated water what they really mean is that water is contaminated with from animal agriculture I think almost entirely what is this timeline here the source of e.coli that Google this most prominent source of e.coli from in vegetables I would guarantee you it’s animal agriculture I mean if you see those gigantic fat farms that runoff and source of e.coli in vegetables is that what you said get it Joe you ski fine you find it you find the evidence I’m trying to be I’m trying to be a good Moby yeah I’m trying to be vegan I’m not argue for the vegans I’m vegan I like this I like this so hard to do no it’s not hard to do it’s a respectable position man it just is it’s all three actually was the thing that popped up is the most common way to acquire e.coli infection is by ground B emanate unpasteurized milk fresh produce and.

That fresh produce means not cooked so if you get broccoli yeah you have like a yeah just spinach you’re supposed to cook spinach celery that’s the problem with romaine lettuce right because Romain is you nobody ever cooks that stupid layers if the world had no romaine lettuce do you think he’d be okay I think it’d be fine daddy calls it the hard lettuce he’s like I don’t want that hard lettuce give me the soft oh I don’t like even soft lettuce iceberg is just a joke that’s just room for meat I could be putting meat in my stomach instead of that ass it’s just delicious and lettuce yeah listen I would say see I would say to you joe rogan vegan yeah what I would say you’re very handsome man like you’ve seen healthy healthiest you have an organic garden your backyard no I got some I grow okay a little bit a little bit not a lot get a lot of from the store yeah and I don’t buy meat from the store like I get to opt out of factory farming because I have a lot of blog name stuff my own I have definitely still bought meat from the store I buy way less of it and I eat meat almost every day yeah highway less but I’ll.

Still go to a restaurant and order steak yeah I feel like this is something attribute people probably heard before but it’s like the feeling of eating while gaming is just different it’s way different it tastes different it’s better for you it feels different it feels different for my body yeah you know mean have I remember watching this thing about Ted Nugent once I was like how’s that guy got so much energy he’s like 65 years old the time period of the was he’s Dog Sick eating deer every all day that I mean his love or hate that guy there’s a lot of power his diet he’s a good guy he get to know him he really is people are saying to me like job to do join the podcast I love him how about that does he say that I agree with 100 no I’m never sat and talked to uncle Ted which you know I worked at the NRA for a while and like I used to get assigned to the Ted Nugent talk that he gave at the NRA annual meetings like I was a writer for the NRA and like work for that digital websites and I would get assigned to like the Ted Nugent seminar at the NRA annual Me’s I would go and.

Sit in the back with Ted and he would go broad brother and he it’s crazy he’s not he ain’t faking that ain’t like something he just puts on for the cameras that’s Ted and but he is smart man but he is as you found out on that podcast which I thought was amazing like that dude is sharp as they come you know what also he’s reasonable and open to new information you don’t think RJ – I turned him on to marijuana yeah you did okay this is a first of all he’s using CBD on a regular basis in fact if you go to Ted Nugent official go to his Instagram he was actually he was advertising jambo CBD that I hooked him up with yeah he was having some serious knee pains he’s had up you know he was telling me about his days of rock-and-roll jumping off of amplifiers and he destroyed his meniscus this is a shot I ran into him like three years ago at a concert and went backstage and we were chatting and he had huge ice packs on each one of his knees I just had surgery yeah I don’t know what the surgery was for but it like clearly he was clearly in pain and like he just looked you know rundown but then we went.

Out in the crowd he came onstage he looked like a 25 year old rock guy yeah he he’s a hard-working man yeah I mean when the time comes the lights are on that guy goes after it and people like to so you support with the racist you said it is like it no unfortunate you know whatever the he said that you didn’t like that either he shouldn’t have said or maybe you didn’t understand what he meant or maybe it’s out of context anything that hurts anybody’s feeling unfortunate and I don’t support it but guess what we’re we all have unfortunate that’s just the fact of being a human being and one the parts one of the that we’re doing when we’re screaming out and calling out someone and want someone deep platformed dismissed and never to be heard them again we’re worried us are worried that that’s going happen to us we’re worried that we would ever exhibit that sort of reprehensible behavior or language and we want to we want to put a stop to it ourselves in other people we want to eliminate it from our society and.

Culture we want to do it harshly ruthlessly and we’re terrified that it’s gonna be done to us yeah you know and there’s a lot of people that make some really terrible mistakes and I think there’s got to be some sort of path to redemption I really believe that always because I meet you know in hunting I’m certainly don’t meet the caliber of folks that you have in this room but like I meet these people and hunting then and I run around the in these circles and people are saying this person thinks this and you’ve seen that Instagram post I don’t believe in that and like knocking people down you know and I just said I know that person that’s a good person you know and maybe he’s not he or she is not depicting this in the way that you like it in this instance that’s a good well-meaning person people are more than capable of mistakes and we should be more than capable of allowing them redemption and forgiveness cuz we should want the same thing for us should I be on this podcast right now and have said something in the last couple hours that it was terrible and like I would hope the folks that know me would know that like this.

Is a mistake and long as I own up to the mistake and say hey it was in the moment I apologized a little bit right brain a little bit of my brain was going yeah I apologize for that thing and it’s not that define me because that’s a very scary and slippery slope to get down is like one moment you know life can’t define you it’s also something that’s really it seems way more recent and this idea that know you want someone to never be heard from again yeah you know they up and they should never be heard from again and also I think and this is my own bias I think it’s a product of a way of distributing information that has existed all of our lives until recently and I feel like the law form conversation is the only way get to know somebody and when you sit when I sat down with Ted after the three hours talk to Mike I like this guy I like him well like you say I love when I get off of a good podcast when I mean there’s like an episode of the hunting collective and I sit down with somebody and they’re like oh my god this person is like what they just brought to my life in two hours I’m so.

Happy to have had that yeah it’s like a high you get yeah it’s a legitimate high because don’t you say this all the time you don’t get to sit down in your life and take two hours or three hours with somebody and just talk and exchange ideas and disagree agree and no distractions yeah and that like what that gives you and if folks haven’t done like that it gives you something almost every time and that’s the only way you get to know people yes really it’s very don’t mean I don’t mean just through podcasts I mean in your life I mean if you don’t have a podcast sits sit down with someone and talk to them for several hours how often you do that with your wife nah man it’s rare you know mean I have made a vested interest in long-form conversation not just on the podcast but in my life really over the last like five or six years yeah who better than you to say that and be like this is informed the way that I think the way that like it’s impacted our society and our culture this show like it’s changed the way I’d feel about people yeah change the way I.

Feel about what communication is like I have convenient perceptions of people I think we all do I defiantly go all that guy’s cool all that guy’s not or this girl’s an or whatever my convenient perceptions of people I find that a lot of them are based on these brief interactions they’re based on you know small amounts of information it’s been distributed over long periods of time and maybe at one time I caught someone when they were hammered they were being an or maybe I was hammered and just I was annoyed by them or well who knows what it was but to really understand who a person is you have to sit down with them I think and just talk to them and you have to do it for a long time yeah and it takes a long time and you also observe their actions and observe them when they’re tested and reserve them under duress and there’s no way to get out of like get out of a long conversation you can’t say like hey I gotta go now yeah I’m out of my depth all the I said about myself how great I was before this now you’re opening up this chasm where I don’t know.

The said I knew but I could for a 30 second on one minute TV spot I could train I could yeah read the lines and I could come off like I look like I know what I’m talking about there’s no way to escape this freakin thing I just thought about something like how up would a show be if you had just a husband and wife alone in a room with no one reacting to them right just them sitting down at a podcast and then if that podcast gets broadcast to the world and the whole world gets to watch their up dysfunctional relationship and how it plays out all the weirdness you know the this weirdness that you see around people in their wives and sometimes you have a couple of cocktails the wife will say something really and walk off it’s like a cup that spills over just like keeping all of it in the cup and then everyone small you can’t keep it in keep it in and then there’s just like the guy does something douchey or the girl does something Conti or whatever the it is and then you like whoa it first starts that it starts to trickle out in this passive-aggressive way and then.

Eventually if you’re there long enough it just becomes aggressive there’s no long enough and that’s one of the about alcohol it’s so beautiful how that aggression just comes out after you put okay I got you tell me if you like this you tell me if you like this idea I had this idea the other day that’s basically what we’re doing it now is that I would do a show about ethics around like hunting and the outdoors and but it would just be called drunk ethics where I would just be drinking with people and having intelligent conversations that would increasingly get and weird more or weird and open because I’m getting yeah drinking I don’t mind dream I’m drinking right now through this whole thing you are to other than the fact I had to pee like yeah it’s been a great I’m not a I’m not anti drinking I think there’s something to be gained from the release of inhibitions yeah you know there’s something that’s me there’s a reason why I have such a strong place socially well plug for a wry brain I mean I’m releasing inhibitions but also increasing brain function.

The same time your brain so can few hashtags it’s like what hashtag rye brain I think that would be a wicked podcast though every week you get together a couple that’s been fighting about maybe have a therapist in the room something fun that there’s no therapies will ruin that’s true people fight you just break up this just Duke it out until they can’t take it anymore then just go with a way of Ben Affleck and JLo this fall for a short period of time you were in love let it hit the rocks move on folks don’t you want to have a new person you like do you have anything listen up do you have any like marriage advice like I’ve been married for coming up on five years I have a two-year-old my wife wants to have more children I just bought a new house living in the brand-new house in the new town you’ve got a lot of going on that are pressure points I’m living the American dream yeah look I’m very happy with my family they’re wonderful people I love them but like I want to sustain this I have a great thing I’d like to put my arms are gonna keep yeah this is so.

Great I don’t want it to go away well just that attitude alone your awareness of how special it is know you are doing the thing that everybody thinks of when they think about like fulfillment in life you’re raising a child you’re having children yeah you’re you know you’re engaged in this intense relationship with another human being we’ve created a person all those are giant man there was a giant and also you’re engaged in an activity the 50 of the people fail hard it goes down hard it’s screaming and swearing hands of all the levels of failure in life like there’s nothing more no failure more impactful than a divorce I’ve met I mean if have so many friends that have been fired from jobs and it’s not fun it’s not good but they bounce back yeah you bounce back they the will I’ve seen guys lose who they are from divorce I’ve seen it happen I’ve talked about this too many times but as a true story I have a friend who has been divorced to a woman for 14 years he’s been married to a new one for 12 he has a family he has children with this new woman it’s over with the old one he still pays her every year and there’s a.

Pond so children because he her so hard she’s got work because it’s crazy because the laws are insane the laws are insane they don’t make any sense we’re not talking about a woman who is like 80 years old and can’t work anymore either we’re talking about completely you know viable human being dude it’s bananas it is banana for that to flip like you said went back to like the I do thing like when you say I dude there’s never I did have a buddy who when he said I do and they turned around she looked man he looks scared she bad I probably bet that she didn’t say it right yeah he did say that I just say that I wanna be like a movie yeah yes some people just don’t they’re not supposed to be together but think they should be with somebody yeah they find somebody and they talk that someone into doing something insane like signing a legal contract says you’re gonna be together forever and ever till death but see like what my problem is a very lucky problem that I’ve got something that at least in its like early years this seems to be the right thing love you honey hope you ain’t listen she made it this.

Far what are we two hours what 30 minutes yeah she she’s got a two-year-old by herself at home she checked it love you been long time ago but I like you know my challenge right now is I think about life I’m like I got this wonderful beautiful thing yeah and I’m just the stress is that I’m gonna it up well that is always a stress and I think that’s one of the reasons why a lot of marriages fails because of this intense pressure of the relationship you know like there’s a finality and I understand the need for this finality right this is a need for this contract and that everything locked down if you’re a woman you can’t like you when you’re raising children you need help right you need a man to be there to help you raise it hopefully but you also need financial help it’s difficult you know it’sit’s this is all it makes sense that the woman would want to lock in yeah like that it makes sense it’s also a weird cultural tradition right it’s this weird thing that we have this law like we bring the law involved into relationships and it’s very strange like legal contracts yeah and some of.

Them are preposterous right sometimes you see a guy who looks like Rupert Murdoch right and he’s got this banging wife and she’s like 30 years old and she’s got big tits or how about Harvey Weinstein and his wife she’s in it for the right reason and you’re like I see what happened here he sees it too when they say I do they’re like yeah this is disgusting troglodyte type you know just a gelatinous looking Jabba the Hutt looking man and a beautiful hot young wife because the guy’s got kajillions that’s a normal thing then they’re both editors thought I put up any pictures but they’re both going to those folks there was we’re both going into that knowing like hey look this isn’t a traditional or pairings maybe he was really sweet with her and that’s all she needs maybe she’s just this rare soul that if he had five dollars in his pocket she’d be super happy with him that’d be doubt I would doubt it as well it is like a oh damn doubt it yes it’s a preposterous Union in the first place it’s listen there’s some relationships that you could define as legal.

Prostitution they are absolutely legal prostitution a woman has made a determination that she let this sloth flew it into her vagina on an intermittent basis if she could be bathed in diamonds and drive a Ferrari and live in a mansion this is a normal part of life some people would say and I might even say like long as they’re consenting and they’re both aware that’s going on then well that would be a good argument for prostitution as well though wouldn’t this a bit of a transaction guess I don’t know it’s a transaction yeah I guess when you look down at this right that way I’ve always said why is it okay to give someone massage you give some massage but you can’t even jerk them off it’s not legal it decides who can touch your penis and like if the massage therapist says hey yeah I really enjoyed giving you massage let’s go somewhere afterwards of my own freewill and I’ll jerk you off I’d be like that would be fine that’s funny you’re right you just can’t do it right in the confines of the massage parlor unless you’ve got a public health issue.

And that’s just like if loads smell like gunshots and you were he could have massage power it’s like a shooting range Lee oh is going on this place devil purify that man yeah I mean so there’s a lot of laws that are ridiculous but there’s there seems to be someone here as the merit advise I’m looking for I got maybe it was what we were talking about earlier maybe it’s long-form conversations having long conversations with each other I haven’t long respect like respecting the fact that you can’t get through some of this stuff in a very short time I I’ve always said like I appreciate a nice road trip for that reason oh yeah you hanging out with each other for long periods of time yeah like i’d much rather the stress of an airport with the kid and the wife is not i’d much rather just drive it take the time because you get this like connection if you can get the phones out of the way yeah for the passengers you just get this connection that you wouldn’t get otherwise yeah doing together that are unique that helps you know yeah experiencing together but you also have to both have the mindset.

That you enjoy each other’s company yeah and you want to make it work good yeah and some people just don’t man and this is seen that happen right we’ve all seen relationships where the girls just like check please yeah the guys like baby I’m different but it’s at 50 like you said it’s a 50/50 thing so like you have been married for quite some time and we were talking about prior to where we’re shooting our bows out there like you’re you know like there’s you’ve done to make it work you like your wife and she likes you and it works and it’s been working for a long time and like the percentages say that’s would you say 50/50 is it Chris Rock had a great joke about it you said he was 50 of the people leave you go he goes but how many cowards just stay look relationships don’t always work but here’s the thing you don’t always know who the you are yeah and I’m a different person than I was five years ago yeah I just am yes I guess hope I’m a better person I’m trying very hard to be a better person I certainly know more about myself I understand myself better this is a long slow process I think we are all a work.

In progress that’s right and not everybody engages in this work so you could be a person who’s on this path of you know being present and trying to be kinder and trying to improve and then you have a spouse male or female that just shits on you and I’ve seen that too man I’ve seen me too really brutal toxic relationships where they insult and say rude around your friends try to with you and people get into these relationships where they genuinely hate each other yeah but they’re stuck together with those two children too because I told my dad I wrote my dad this letter recently was getting real deep in our number-3 of the podcast Pro nuance I sent it to my dad but he won’t listen to this but I wrote this letter that was like listen man because thought I had seen recently like his developing relationship with my son and like shot it put this thought in my head that you know relationship my dad the kids caring for me the fact that he stayed with my mom and they developed this like place for me to grow and nurtured me and allowed me to become a person in that environment like it was.

The North Star from you and then I left that environment like always I never wondered what my path was gonna be I always could look up and be like bond that I developed my family their love for me is like the thing that I’m always you know I’m looking back to but also looking forward to because that’s what defines me and regardless of what do I can always fall back on that my dad loves me my mom me I love them and I grew up like with this strength of soul because knew I don’t I have friends that came from the same place that I did same town I did in Maryland that OD don’t heroin they lived in the same little suburb suburbia community that I did they had parents that were the same age they went to the same high school they lived in the same environment they went down one way I went down another and I truly do feel that me going down that way was the way of my parents like built this structure around me that was always about bond that love and the that that’s very fortunate yeah very I and that’s what in that me being able to later on in life see how fortunate I was to have that drove.

Me to not fail and to not let like whatever other failures creep into my life around you know maybe I’ll take drugs a lot of friends place I grew up in Maryland there’s a lot of people at succumb to drugs alcohol and like that a lot of friends yeah Baltimore’s a rough spot yeah man I come from town call it the Hagerstown Maryland I say like come from a town but the Western Maryland is kind of it’s a corridor for 78 interstate 81 and there’s a lot of drugs there and there’s a lot of my friends that are either in jail or no longer around that a lot of successful ones too but that happened to me yeah and I was able to be I was able to look at that moment and be like I came from the same place they did the same environment the same friends the same activities we all hunted and played sports and we all do know we hung out together I went one way they went another way do you attribute that entirely to your parents or is it possible that it’s like who you chose to hang out with as well and the activities you engaged in because unfortunately I know people that were.

Good parents yeah that had kids that od’d yeah and listen I can’t look that’s is I’m not trying to generalize in any way about you know anyone situate my situation was that I could always I felt like and I told my dad at some point my life where said I went to him and I was like maybe 20 or 19 and I said I’m gonna get all A’s now I’m done like cuz I was a c-plus dude and you know I was the dumbest kid in the smart class through high school and there was a time my life I realized that like I had to pay back while my parents and my grandparents and my family had done for me because I knew that they’d given me something that not everybody had and knew I was like I know that I have to pay this back and I gotta stop messing around now go and do something that’s interesting because they did a great job then because sometimes what happens when people were raised with a giant safety net of love they become unambitious yeah they become think I was close to that I was boys I was close to that a little bit fall like I’m going to Community College and.

Smoking a lot of weed and trying to have a good time yeah no but there was a time in my life there was a legitimate I my life where I said my dad I don’t remember it but my dad remembers it though I just came to him like alright it’s over now it’s time for me to just buckle down and get it done well the difference between a child that you’re taking care of and then someone who has to be on their own is ten years right an eight year old no one expects an eight year old take care of themselves but an 18 year old time to get your together that’s yeah quick it’s a hard concept quick hard concept it’s unbelievably hard and unless you introduce that child the hard work and the rewards of hard work and in you’re probably gonna set them up for some kind of failure I was extremely fortunate that I found martial arts yeah holla was that my biggest struggle in my teenage years and I found something that was insanely difficult but highs the rewards were it’s like nothing I’ve ever experienced in my life yeah so I realized like okay to get really good at.

Something you have to be able to put in the kind of energy that most people are not willing to do and that’s what separates you from them the finer discipline put a massive amount of energy and focus into that discipline and then be obsessed with it then the rewards come if you analyze it correctly and pursue it with everything that you have you’re gonna figure out how to get better long as you don’t get really up along the way there was a real possibility of that so what I realized early on and very lucky was that all these people that I saw around me that we’re engaging and all this really risky behavior really crazy violence drugs and what they were doing was looking for thrills yeah that’s what they were doing but they were looking for thrills in an easily accessible way didn’t require discipline it didn’t require and years of training focus and commitment it didn’t require that what I doing was something and I was just lucky that I found this thing I just didn’t want to get bullied picked on I was little I wasn’t a big kid you exerting like some control of your life that well I was just realized.

I was like I can’t do that I’m tired of being scared of people Carter this dude give me this the tough guy look and I gotta go the other way cuz I’m scared I just didn’t want to be that I didn’t want to be that um so that carried on with me for my whole life yeah but I’ve seen so many people that didn’t find a discipline and they just bounced around like our core Katzie yeah man it’s one of the reasons why I push it so much I was like whatever the it is that you can do that you like to do that’s competitive like one of the about competition is not just that you prove I’m the man know what it is hard it’s working competition is one of the hardest because if someone’s trying to do it and you’re trying to do it it’s like how much do you want it how much more do you want than they want that’s right and that’s that becomes this crazy battle internally well as extra but you say like all the time say pressure creates diamonds right yeah in my case I realized that didn’t I realized somewhere in my life that like there I.

Have the opportunity to there’s not enough pressure right mmm I have this soft like said soft thing to fall back on which is like you know middle-class family they’ll probably let me live there all right yeah but it’s like I had the opportunity to do that but think I just realized that part of the reason I wanted to push forward and do it and find something that I was passionate about because I knew that I had a choice I had a I had a choice that I could do I could try to do something different or I could fall back on what I’d been given and I felt that what I’d was significant enough to my life that I owed it know I did something I owed it to drive toward whatever happiness I could find right and it was that the stability of my family life and it wasn’t perfect but it was pretty good and rather than sink into that I was like I’m gonna just push through that and use that as fuel oh that’s intelligence you know I mean you have an awareness you figured out what you can do and what where this can go wrong and you recognized it and you decided to make some changes not.

Even and I’m sure I’d like it’ll have ups and downs but hunting is the thing that enriched my life truly did and much as it is problematic in the way that’s presented in society and the way that people see it when they look at it through like a shallow lens I can say truly that it’s enriched my life in ways I’ll never be able to truly like I met you through it like I met a lot of people I met I’ve been a lot of good people through yemen’s with people that again the problem is looking at it from the outside versus experiencing it the people that you’re meeting these are people that are doing something that’s insanely difficult and it seem like it is for a lot of folks you look in the outside like what do you what’s so difficult to shoot an innocent animal bowhunting which is what you and I mostly do is one of the most difficult I’ve ever done in my life and I’ve done a lot of difficult it’s incredibly difficult and they’re people that you meet are not just disciplined but they’re in great shape you have to be like there’s a physical exertion aspect.

To it that’s completely ignored and misunderstood or people are ignorant of it not that it’s ignored they just don’t understand it it’s almost like an athletic pursuit that sustains life yeah it’s very there’s a reason why campaigns is out there running marathons and ultramarathons right now he’s I mean he’s not just doing that because he enjoys fitness and he most certainly does he’s doing that because it helps him as a hunter does and that to a lot of people they’re like wait what are you talking about like that make any sense I’ve seen hunting yeah I mean if you listen this podcast and you never hunted like I wouldn’t encourage you to go and find these people on the internet on Top 10 social medias and understand that each one of them represents in my opinion a layer of hunting right John Dudley represents to me I’m he’s a wonderful human being but like at its core on Digital Marketing social media he represents the expert Archer yes that’s a layer of hunting that you need to have so you can be successful campaigns represents the physically fit hunter and that’s a layer that you need to have if.

You’re going to be ultimately successful like Remmy Warren represents like the ultimate predator being able to think about like an animal does and move like an animal does and that’s a layer that you to have if you’re gonna be ultimately successful in Steve Rinella represents the great thinker the great you know theorist and all these are like layers that you to have at some level to be a good hunter to be the best hunter like to be successful consistently yeah you have to know so much and one of when I got into it that was interesting that Steve said to me he said you’re gonna really like this because it has so many layers to it it’s like there’s a lot of room to learn grow and you never can master it no can’t you get especially bowhunting yeah what are the possibilities you’re gonna run into the same scenario and over you never mean you get lucky a couple years in a row but eventually you’re gonna run into some sort of a situation where the wind catches you something goes wrong you step on a tree branch snaps and one it’s like it teaches you accountability too.

Because when you release an arrow yeah are you can say whatever you want and I’ve had all these situations where I’ve arrow has landed in place I didn’t mean it to and it teaches you this countability yeah it teaches you ultimate accountability when you release that arrow there’s not you can’t go get it back and if it hits the animal in a place and wounds it that animal suffers it is on you 100 pen there is no way to get out of it there’s no way to get out of that feeling and I’ve had I don’t know about you but I’ve had like months like six months of just like I don’t want to overstate it’s not hyperbolic but like just really a lot of pain around like I did and I it was my fault I got lazy I was presumptive I got too confident I just screwed up in the moment I don’t know what happened but I’ve sent a very sharp object into the rump of a big elk and it ran off and never to be seen again well the consequences of that one motion the one movement that’s going to release that arrow or so significant that it with your head done that’s where what we.

Were talking about you know we’ve talked about this many times but target panic that’s what that is that’s the realization of the anticipation of the moment and consequences the understanding of the potential negative consequences and they’re overwhelming yeah and they haunt you they do and that’s the stuff don’t it up and then you never should think don’t this up yeah and to me there’s massive parallels with martial arts but also with playing pool like if you’re about to shoot if that’s what I was gonna bring don’t miss you’re gonna and you want but also there’s no part of pool that like you if the ball goes where you didn’t intend it to that animal gets Mane right the consequences are much so you can equate the consequences in your mind to be successful because it’s some level you have to write has to be an important motion for you to really care to do it right but there’s real and that’s why I say like one of the reasons why I continue to do what I do is because is this thing is complex and I see other people’s confusion around it and I appreciate their confusion and I.

Understand that it’s hard to get and I definitely want to find ways like to make it easier an analogy would be pool imagine if every time you play pool you waited and days for one shot yeah and you didn’t know what the shot would be and sometimes you had to shoot it quickly and if you missed and didn’t make the shot an animal would scream out in agony and die a slow death and you would be sick for months that’s when you think about how difficult it is to perform under that moment the bruh this intense pressure you have the one moment there’s nothing else this stress me I just think about because it is it’s real life though I guess and I think Steve Rinella price said it at some point or you did or somebody really smart did this like it’s a three dimensional experience in cool like riding and rollercoasters thrilling but the third dimension isn’t there because when you get off nothing happened really right you got the thrill but there was no consequence of the thrill and really that’s kind of the point of buying a ticket to ride on a rollercoaster getting a thrill without having to take part in anything.

Substantial with hunting you there is thrills there’s fun you everybody’s seen videos of dudes whooping hollering and hugging you and I’ve done it around the killing of an animal it’s not that because I always ask myself like some really key questions like why is killing gratifying like what’s the answer to that really what’s the answer to that and I was like and that’s gonna be hard to explain there’s a bunch of going on pretty hard to explain one to someone who know what it is one thing that’s going on is you just accomplished something that’s insanely hard to do and you’re relieved that their animal died and that relief manifests itself in exuberance high-five hug you let you go yeah you’re happy that it happened and it died quickly yes that’s a big part of it that is a part of it yeah and I made this like post on Case Study social media yesterday around like gripping grins man your anti gripping grid for a long time big sticking point it did explain to grip and grin for the uneducated we were talking about I was talking this about we’re gonna try to write an.

Article for the meteor calm about pup a grip and grin is there’s I mean there’s this goes back many years I mean goes back to Teddy Roosevelt it goes back to the turn of century market harms like the photos we showed earlier I mean it it’s taking a photo with the thing you just killed is no new thing to us this is all this photos his oldest photos grip and grin just means you’re with the animal you’re gripping its antlers are gripping a part of the animal and you’re smiling and you’re happy that you did that what I think what I would say about gripping grins is that it’s been weaponized right we everybody that’s listening to this map has likely seen the girl with giraffe girl giraffe the guy with lion the girl and like the other girl that did giraffe the guy with the baboons like it’s been weaponized and it’s been weaponized to a point where it’s thing the first thing that somebody say like Golden Globes ricky gervais smite he finds this thing online he eats meat by the way he does how about that how about that how about that your head him on here no but I talked to him and Opie.

And Anthony it’s a nice guy hunting if they eat to me yeah it’s like it so we’ve weaponized the term trophy would weaponize this gripping good thing and then the overall society and we I know that hunting is that if honey was a business not a lot of people would buy stock in it I mean it there’s less people doing it it’s less relevant to society and the weapon that a lot of folks are using that don’t like it is this photo and the photo depicts a person smiling next to or overtop of a dead animal and so at its face it absolutely says I’m happy that there’s a dead animal in front of me it’s not enough information for such a significant moment and that’s so what I’ve said like around the photo is it happened for a very long time but then Body Image social media became a deal right and during the 80s and 90s grip and grains were like I remember going to like my first trade shows as a kid or and people would have like flipbooks of grip and grits mm-hmm they would like get him out be like you see what I killed this year before cellphones or whatever they would bring him out be like look at that look at all.

The that kill and it was like this communication between hunters that was legit like they I know what a group Marine is I’m not questioning it but then Job Description social media becomes prevalent people start posting these photos to everyone where they can’t control the messaging anymore and it’s one of the easiest one of the most oxymoronic to go pluck from hunting and be like don’t understand this looks up let me apply that to trophy hunting and let me dam this person for this photo and so with that lady with the goat recently yeah invasive species yeah on an island where they have to kill it it’s killing all the native wildlife yeah but then later on they find that there’s a photo of that young lady with a bloody dildo with a goat blood on it did you not hear about that part what yeah we’re gonna have to get that on the old Google machine what yeah that’s a tough subject for three hours in but that happened what do you mean just pulling up stuff that’s hard for me to explain this there was like a some sort of bachelorette party or something and that.

Young lady the same lady that was in the sky land correct yes what the goat was also photographed with a bloody dildo goat blood I believe so why was she trying to say I don’t know maybe she’s just partying she could have been just having a great time what if there’s a photo me with a bloody dildo you would go figures I got them Rogen that jambo dildo he’s had too much hi brain I hope I’m right about now but didn’t just make that up no but we’ve discussed that internally it a bunch Jamie say hit me up Jamie what’s up it’s like the fist thing look like it’s not like a dildo like you’re thinking of oh it’s like a fist dildo is it as even are you not gonna show oh yeah I can show you guys keep it to himself there you okay that that’s the thing okay oh just it’s a fist is that for fisting this is hunter and homophobe la slam for photo with dead sheep bloody okay that’s Fox News huh so that’s recently is this recent when is yeah this is so it’s quite a few months after the initial image yeah so this is a different animal she’s with it looks.

Like some yeah she’s got well she’s got there’s looks like an ibex and then she’s got what looks like a muffle another dead animal on British soil she posed with a sex toy and the dead sheep well maybe there’s some context to it I mean maybe there’s a I don’t like said I don’t a bet it look good let’s just say that yeah in the context husband said listen if you do shoot one this is what you have to do maybe there that’s I don’t know I need the details around but that photo is just like the baboon one just don’t look good what are you saying Jamie okay it says gearing said that the marital had been given as a birthday present but said Swift lik how do you say your name’s witless wittle ik sort of was rude and arrogant throughout the trip whose gearing I think must have been her international host maybe she’s on the trip with I was on run the women on the trip okay well that sounds like two chicks didn’t get along her side of it was a bit of fun during the party we marital aid okay the man isn’t giving us a birthday prison so now I have no idea why I was brought out the following.

Day on the hunt it was an appalling thing to do a complete disrespect to the animal didn’t she has just the animal know yeah it was dead and don’t I mean it’s weird but I don’t you know I don’t know if I’m horrified by it I’m not friends with her any longer in fact she’s the reason I left the hunt early because I was so against what she stood for and her more okay I don’t want to read this yeah I don’t know chicks ladies with each other I’ve never met that person I don’t know them but that happens like this is just an example of who knows the weaponizing of these situations where somebody all those get pulled out everybody woo every time I did not know about that though ya know it’s interesting that’s one example but that’s what ends up happening around these images now when I posted this thing the other day half people would say like don’t stop doing what you’re doing if you feel it’s right and you feel respectful as a hunter and you’re telling the entire story and what part of that story is to sit behind am once my land and signify how great you feel about it then go for.

It exactly that’s what you should be doing don’t let someone else change your behavior the other side of is like every hunter has a chance to impact somebody that go hunting every hunter there’s 11 million hunters they have a chance to impact the and millions of folks who aren’t exposed to hunting at any point in their lives and so I can see I can really see both but for me it’s a issue of if I want hunting to continue in the way that it does and I want my Marketing Plan social media privileges to make hunting better I would probably choose not to put that out there unless it was in the context I felt very comfortable with that’s very fair it’s that’s not just fair it’s honest and it makes sense but obviously if you had those photos and you showed them to someone like me who’s hunted it wouldn’t bother me at all be like yeah you got a nice deer it’s all about context it’s all like I could slide it across the table to you or text it to and you would say cool man congratulations you and I have been on several hunts yeah we know what it’s like we there’s no we don’t have to explain what.

It is the problem is it’s like fast food for an idea yeah you’re just it’s a tiny little thing it’s not real you’re not getting the full context to where the food came from or how the animal was raised and how it was killed and turned into a burger you just get in the burger real quick and this is like what you’re getting with the photo just getting a photo yeah they’re not getting the full context of the experience that led up to you shooting this deer that might be like this 200 inch mule deer that’s the year of a lifetime you have this giant smile and you’re like you can’t believe you outwitted this old monarch of the forest and put an arrow in own his ribcage for sure and I think that that’s a totally legitimate way to express your hunting for me if you were to ask me today I would say I would probably not give anybody the chance to misrepresent my I don’t put pictures like that up anymore you don’t very same reason but I thought in the past but I put a lot of elk meat up yes for me it’s like I put the meat up I put all the whole story up but if I was to say like always I said in the very.

Beginning of the whole meat not liking group and greens conversation I said if someone had said Ben can you give that up for the betterment of hunting like could you just give that one thing up that’s traditionally it’s been done for decades where a guy kills a thing it sits in front of it yeah would you be willing to give that up if for some way shape or form even if you didn’t agree with it made for a better hunting to not hunter to non hunter relationship I would look man yeah down for that yeah and so I think that’s what the conversation now is trying to determine is that the best thing or I’m not sure I have the answer I think for anybody who’s listening is through our conversation and sort of gets in there standing where we’re coming from they’ll appreciate that there’s a lot of thought involved here for anybody sees that photograph of you smiling with a dead bear they’re not going to appreciate that it’s gonna be real quick and they’re gonna have this how many people are willing to sit here and listen to this whole conversation and get a converse together standing rather of how.

Your mind works yeah and how you think about not nearly many as we’ll look at a photo and go that guy’s a cunt you know and that’s the Karl Pilkington ricky gervais stack deer right much as I do enjoy Ricky’s comedy and when he looks at these like that first of all that giraffe one that giraffe one was super complicated and Glenn Greenwald and all these other people they sipped a lot of people on lady that giraffe had to be killed that giraffe apparently had killed at least two or three Bulls and it was a non-viable male and they made it out like it was this rare giraffe but it’s rare because it’s old it was dark because the darkest ones are older yes but that’s we always get down these rabbit holes these somebody says I’m mad about this photo and the next thing we know we’re debating the age of a single giraffe it’s like it matters it’s like yeah it does matter but it matter to the extent that they try to make it they don’t understand what they’re looking at but they are looking at something that they find displeasing yes and that’s you’re.

Right about that and I find it displeasing as well I’m like when I see that I like listen I’m not a giraffe hunter I’ve never been to that part of Africa I don’t know that person but just to look at that I feel the same way as everyone else because your apps are awesome yeah the thing about dress I had a bit about him in my act like they’re the only animal that looks fine with being in the zoo yeah they’re like another day with no lion who lady they just strolling around like you can babies feed your ass my daughter when she was two I held her up and she had a piece of leaf and she put it out there and the draft comes over it’s the only good animal that they let babies feed no they don’t let little kids feed polar bears you little bear we’ll be dining on fingers give me your arm yeah man so I get you’re right no you’re right it might try I just make sense I want it to be better I want the conversation not between the Stephen Merchant ricky gervais Johnny Depp ricky gervais acts like an in this context he enjoys getting angry people but in his defense the stereotypical hunter that is in his mind what he’s fighting against.

Yeah he’s an yeah and I would agree and I would be like dude I agree with you most hunters agree with you something that guy wants fly to Africa and shoot an elephant and is not even gonna eat it yeah and he just wants it because he’s getting the Big Eight yeah well there’s a lot of weird yeah the problem I have with that is like the specifically calling out that single person or smaller group subset of hunters that you don’t agree with to paint the entire group like that they think that that’s the only way they can get people to stop yeah they think that what they’ve done with Cecil look they’re they enacted real change yeah there’s been real change around a lot of this stuff yeah with Cecil they enacted real change but unfortunately a lot of it has been negative what people don’t understand is how much it costs the people that live there and about these hunting concessions get closed down and then these animals go wild and then what happens is poachers just take over and a lot of the animals get decimated the same way they did in the York Ny united states before market hunting was out well they you look at it what a concession is.

Right a concession and this happened I want to say happening like the late 70s and early 80s in Africa where there was you know at especially antelope and African antelope and all these other species that were there they were not at the brink of extinction but they were suffering okay a concession is essentially a bunch of rant landowners get together and let’s put a fence around our stuff to everything keep poachers out and keep the animals in once you know in Africa wins especially South Africa when concessions became prevalent wildlife populations skyrocketed you know triple-double times ten hundreds thousands of Anil Abed were there before fortunately because that’s the only way they could have values yeah value because they have monetary value yeah and I don’t know I’m conflicted about that me too yeah I’m conflicted about it it’s like a thing that worked but is that the way I don’t know I’ve been over there I’ll probably never go back over there because there’s just so many in this North America I’d like to pursue but like it’s something I was involved like I went did and I realized hey.

this is way too complicated and if there’s too much weight too much American influence based on the money we bring you over there that isn’t rooted in exactly what’s good for Africa right so I think like African hunting is valuable it’s like you can paint that picture all day long they can be like this is valuable it’s about for these reasons and nobody can not really argue like the end result of the thing but will it to argue the end result because it’s been so much more effective than just conservation based on donations yeah and that’s what people don’t understand that argue against it you’re wrong when it comes to the numbers you’re wrong it’s right you would like to think that people hunting zebras don’t help but they do yeah that’s what they help way more than people to go over to take photographs yeah so am I willing to say like get rid of that so I can feel better about hunting no because I want there to be more animals the number is so different in the amount of money they contribute this is where people have to understand because.

They’ll throw some numbers at like you know five thousand people go to safaris only two thousand people huh yeah sure but the two thousand people that they hunt and they spend way more money it costs a lot of money to shoot a lion looks like fifty thousand dollars much as you find lion hunting distasteful you have to understand that if you remove it it’s like when you take a dictator out yeah and then you have like a power vacuum how do you replace it well it’s just like they’re just some like on the ground that happen to around look if you want to do wildlife viewing you got to cut roads like yeah you got to put if you want to do wildlife viewing people are gonna pay less so means you to have more people encouraging them on these places where these wild animals are you have to make parks where humans can’t go and you have to be prepared when humans get attacked by anti yeah I’m just gonna happen and so it’s never simple as seems it is simple as it seems to say like the numbers say that African trophy hunting is benefiting the wildlife now is it benefiting in the way.

That everybody thinks is best that’s debatable but you can’t sit here and say like if we end this today they’ll be more gay maybe like it’s probably the reverse is that probably the reverse it might it’ll hurt your feelings but it’s the reverse yeah what’s going on right now in Africa with what would the exact area that Cecil the lion happened in is that they had a call 200 lions they had to shoot 200 Lions which means they had to pay someone to go and shoot these lions because they’re their population gotten so high they were decimating the undulate population so all the Antelope and all the different animals that the Lions were hunting they were destroying them yeah because they have to eat a lot man but you’re a 600 pound cat and all you care you’re a meat processor on four legs brow like there’s no you can be like hey man listen just lay off for a couple of weeks listen I know they’re delicious I know you really like to eat also you know there they were just breeding unchecked yeah and then their populations quickly got to very unmanageable no well seems it sucks.

It’s never simple as it seems the mountain lions in California Washington and Oregon like this year in Oregon and Washington two people were killed one in each state that hasn’t happened in a hundred years you know I’ve talked to a lot of people that say that’s an anomaly but it happened nonetheless it mean anything simple if it’s an anomaly it’s also a reality is it yet those are predators yeah and they’re big and they’re they’ve killed I think 55 bears in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem this year just probably that number I could be skewed in some way for me but I think that’s what I heard and that they V a lot of black bears right that invade I think is this was all grizzly bears that had either been hit by cars or were nuisance or we’re getting around somebody’s cattle that I’ve been shot I think if that’s the number you have to look that up and confirm them right about that that’s a pretty serious accusation if I’m wrong but you know that happens in that this so there’s no simple there’s no simple way to put it many cages here with mountain lions mean mountain lion hunting is outlawed in California but they kill the same amount.

Of mountain lions and the way they killed them is they have to hire people and have to use public funds these tax dollars and they hire a guy with dogs to go catch these cats tell him yeah I mean we hours ago we talked about the Irish Dance north Hurricane Irma american model of wildlife conservation but that’s a thing it’s not infallible but it’s pretty close my opinion it’s a very good system and there’s more stuff that we didn’t cover but dude port we’re deep three hours into this how long Jamie three hours it’s a good it’s a good Jerry it’s a solid one it’s ozawa let’s wrap this picture see ya Ben O’Brien I’m glad we did this my brother always good love you buddy I love you too see ya great to see it you’re the man let’s go play some techno hon yeah all right everybody bye see ya