Joe Rogan – Exposing High School social justice With Peter Boghossian

Mr. Bogosian welcome back good thanks.

Good to be here mr. Lindsey good to James or Jim depending upon preferences that’s right go with Jim Jeff first of all gentlemen and there was one other person that you did with this whole Helen pluck rose from England shout out to Helen from England thanks she back across the pond she’s across the pond she know fish chips and she’s making tea and managing cheerio magazine all right well shout out to her as well let’s explain what you guys did and what’s so significant about it because when I first read it my first inclination I had two reactions one was a huge laugh I laughed really hard and then I said thank God somebody exposed this you know yeah so tell me which guy’s the gym go for it yeah so over it let’s explain who you guys are what okay um my background is in mathematics I bailed out on academia in 2010 though because I kind of see the writing on the wall and so now I am a renegade gender scholar and I write nonsense about genitals that’s primarily what do mean I manage a business at.

Home so I got academia yeah and I’m a I teach philosophy of Poland State University and I met Jim years ago we collaborated and we’ve written a number of over the years and at some point it just came to be we had to do something about this it was just too ridiculous and it was translating into the real world and so we collaborated and here we are well let’s explain what you did and what was ridiculous what we’re talking about what was ridiculous is there’s many fields of studies that you can get legitimate degrees in that are absolutely preposterous right literally filled with nonsense taught by nonsense people who live in these nonsense bubbles right and then they give these degrees and these people go out in the actly and they infect you know they in their ridiculousness in fact certain is particularly tech industry businesses know you see it in the war James de Moura yeah well let’s explain what you guys did yeah so we started about a year I guess a year and a half ago now is last summer we started writing a bunch of.

Academic papers for the journals that represent these fields and so everybody understands what nekkid emic paper is getting out of the gate this isn’t like an op-ed that you dash off for like Washington Post or some magazine or whatever this is a thing like academics worked their careers to write one or two of these a year yeah and so they’re really hard to write they’re supposed to be hard to get published so we were up 20 of them in ten months and seven of those got accepted for were actually published and then we got lost for more yeah we got busted at least for more we’re on track maybe five or six more what had gotten in what’s the difference between getting accepted and getting published so the process with everything in academia is really slow and a lot of people don’t know this so you send off this article the editor looks at it and the editor either gives it the thumbs up with a thumbs down if they give us a thumbs up it goes off to peer reviewers and that process takes months often long as I mean would one paper that was eight months under peer review so the reviewers look at it they try to figure out if the arguments are good they try.

To figure out if the research is good they evaluate that they give extensive comments they send it back to then you have to revise it according to whatever they say make it better is what’s supposed to happen they made ours crazier and so then they did every Cosmopolitan Satisfy single time we took the feedback and made the papers just the most extreme and so then you send them back so now you’re probably three four months in just the review process not to the writing which should also take months yeah and then the editor will either send it back to the reviewers to see if it was good enough or they’ll just evaluate it themselves depending on where it stands and then they’ll make a decision as to whether or not to accept it or reject it or ask for more revisions and then when they accept it that means the journal is ready to publish it but then the publishing process requires all the typesetting proofing all the stuff that goes into making it professional for an academic journal and then that can take months and publishing is the coin of the realm like that’s it so the ideal is one paper.

Every year in the humanities broadly so if you that’s how you credential yourself that’s how you get tenure which is a job for life that’s how you get to teach people these ideas who then as you said go out into the workforce you know five six years later and infect everybody with total silliness so it’s the Whey Protein gold standard peer review so we saw a tremendous problem can we tell people some of the titles of these charter because right now like what the hell is going on here so we had a article the one that got the most press was about dog humping in Hotels Near portland oregon it was called how did it go was it called Henry James’s queer performativity and was a rape culture and queer performativity in dog parks in High School portland oregon yeah we claim to have examined under a fake name these are all fake names performativity oh yeah we have their own lingo their own you know but is that a word in the Past Papers english language performativity I mean in the academic Common Core english language not in common parlance but that’s like the whole thing this is huge right this goes back a long way that’s Judith Butler’s whole thing was that gender Judith Butler is probably the most.

Influential feminist scholar their gender scholar actually I should say that’s been and maybe the last 30 years she’s big-time and so she had this whole thing that gender is performative it’s something you perform it’s not something that you do reactions to rape culture and queer performativity at urban dog parks in Wells Fargo portland oregon why is it retracted because there’s we reactions to rape culture and queer performance we claim to have closely examined the genitals of what’s just under 10,000 just under 10,000 dogs and then interrogated their owners as to their sexual orientation so we checked out the dog’s nuts and then said excuse me sir are you gay yeah and um if they gendered their dogs yeah well we made up these totally insane you know dogs humping incidents and how they beat female dogs but they didn’t beat male dogs so that’s one of the paper that we made you know the other paper that was one also they had the whole thing like if a male dog humps another male dog especially men would freak out and break it up yeah stop that because that’s the queer performativity part yeah but then if a male dog humped a.

Female dog they’d be like you know get her girl yeah get her you know get so you you’re basically raging against hetero normative exactly correct we told them exactly what they wanted to hear and we gave them bogus statistics to fuel what they already wanted to believe yeah we started off with the idea that what we wanted get to was a conclusion and then we made up all the crap in between you get to it and the conclusion was feminism should train men the way we train dogs so that we can get rid of rape culture you know put them on leashes you know it’s right in the paper it’s all there unfortunately we cannot put men on leashes it’s not politically feasible to put men on leashes you guys wrote that yeah their leashes when they misbehave yeah and this paper didn’t just get published the journal said that this was exemplar a scholarship and gave it an award says one of the best pieces it’s this year is their 25th anniversary so this journal has been doing this for 25 years and it’s our 25th anniversary so they’re picking out the best papers the whole year and putting them you know pride a place and some issue of their Journal and ours was gonna be in.

The seventh issue was so even though one is greater it’s not great so it’s it either is greater it’s not great like why they retracting it oh yeah cuz they know we were bogus so what well it’s like a broken clock yeah the clocks broken well it is actually twelve o’clock so they would daily claim its incorrectly that we fabricated statistics but we wrote other papers call one was fat Philip Kingsley body building so they claim that there should be a category introduced in traditional bodybuilding called fat Salman Khan body building where people come and display their fat before the audience and we didn’t manufacture any statistics for that and they loved that they thought it you know one line in that paper was a fat body is a built body what the reviewers like I wholeheartedly agree yeah and then we wrote other papers like to Hypatia we published got accepted not published but that one we claim that unacceptable it’s on earth it’s unethical to make fun of anything to do with Catholic Church social justice right and so if you want to make fun of that don’t have anything of Public Health social justice that’s good so if we wanted to make fun.

Of men that’s great if you want to make fun of white people that’s great if you want to make fun of anything to do with Health Care social justice that’s a problem so made we said that you know San Diego Park S south park’s a huge problem the simpsons is a huge problem we went into talking about how Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart have the right idea but then the journal was like ah but they’re straight white males so you have to you know nuance around that to make it clear that their position is white men even though they’re on the side of World Day social justice it’s not quite good enough you know oh they publish that post they publish that what was that what was that one called that one was called when the joke’s on you and made we rewrote it so that they would think the joke is on us because we cited our own work in there right but the joke was actually on them for publishing it yeah this it’s so funny how racist you can be long as you’re racist against white people that’s what we saw is that long as you are going up the river against privileged and you can really just get away with some nasty stuff yeah and you could generalize well totally.

Gross generalization roses not treat people as individuals absolutely it’s very strange it’s very strange that this is the left you know I was a kid in San Francisco in the 1970s we lived in you know like there was the hippy times and that’s I lived there from age 7 to 11 and it kind of formed a lot of my opinions about people like though who gives a part of my appreciation for any group whatever it is whether it’s race gender or sexual orientation and just I don’t understand it from either way I certainly don’t understand it from a racist perspective but I really don’t standing from racism that’s condoned because it’s racism against white people oh yeah this is the left this is that these are the people that are preaching against hate and these are the people that used to be the people that were supposedly so open-minded and so open to ideas and now they’re trying to stifle creativity and stifle dissent and stifle anything that fit inside that very narrow paradigm that they’re trying to push it’s very strange now they co-opted the civil rights.

Movement the good name of the civil rights movement is kind of the brand that they ride on you know they’re fighting against racism they’re fighting against sexism misogyny etc and the thing is that’s not really what’s going on here they’ve actually tapped into this to throw around the term this postmodern notion that everything in society has to do with Dj Controller 16v Natural power dynamics and the Pd Combo Fiat Doblo power dynamics have to be understood in terms of groups and how those groups have traditionally held power and exercise power and so immediately it becomes stuck in this idea that it’s all about this group or that group and how they relate to one another and I don’t mean like hey let’s get along relate I mean like white people are imagined to always be over black people and therefore you know there’s always as natural power dynamic of oppressor versus oppressed and this is stuff that came straight out of this weird postmodern philosophy where you saw these dissatisfied French philosophers in the sixties you know all when all this stuff you were talking about was going down they saw this stuff and they said wow you know.

Okay Social Work power dynamics are the thing because I should go back a step the postmodern philosophers like Foucault and all this got all hooked up on power because they were dissatisfied with seeing what they called grand narratives Christianity capitalism Marxism they saw all these huge you know explanations for how the world works and said you know they’re not working look how bad communism failed look how there’s so much you know coming out of this or that from religion it’s not working we need to just get rid all of it we’re going to deconstruct this we’re going to break it down to its Snow Shovel Elite Cuisine power dynamics and then we’re going to look at it in terms of who has master over who who’s oppressing what where’s dominance and it’s just kind of grown it got picked up in the academic culture in the 1960s that’s how old this stuff is and then it took this huge turn in the 1990s and get really vicious and that’s where it really got you know that’s when it turned intersectional actually that was during the political correct days that’s when the political correct thing kind of blew up.

Yeah is when all this stuff was coming out so that would have been you know late 1980s is really when all of this political correctness stuff started coming out of the Academy and then a few years later you see it coming all over politics which typically what happens it starts in the Academy a few years later it leaks into the culture right and politics media or the tech sector now whatever it happens to be this stifling of creativity is the most disturbing part about it like this that like the agreement that Charlotte Nc south park and the Simpsons are a real problem it’s so bizarre because like here’s the thing if they miss the mark and it’s not funny it won’t work and then it’ll be a bad show and no one will like it but if it’s funny there has to be something about it that people find ironic satirical there has to be something about it the people are enjoying it has point to some truth yeah and the denial of this and instead like the saying oh it’s white males that are causing this problem and you shouldn’t attack this that or you know there’s subjects that are off-limits and Lesson Plans social justice should never be attacked like the two agree to.

That mmm it’s so preposterous this is life we’re talking about yeah this is literally the nuance of life all the various strange in the spectrum of human behavior and all the you encounter in life and to segment and limit what and is not what’s off limits it’s not off limits based on race based some that a person can’t control at all you’re just born white so if you’re born white you’re born an oppressor mm-hmm all right you’re born a victimizer and if you’re a white male you’re a piece of learn and you can say that white hetero male in particular oh god I mean I’ve seen so many tweets from people that means so many virtue signaling tweets but one of my favorite ones is this feminist who said all a white straight men are trash and less proven otherwise 50 million I mean give or take you know.

How many folks yeah trash no problem prevents proven otherwise improve you’re not right how you do that that’s like you have to be now oh no were they there’s problem ties a lie ship to you see there’s Pdc-10 Dj 6 16v power dynamics once you say hey I’m an ally.

Now you’ve made it so that you have like a shield where people can’t call you a white supremacist anymore mm-hm and you are acting on behalf of other people in you know you’re speaking for them so you now have assumed power that we’re reproducing the same Combo 1500 T-jet 16v power dynamics that’s my mind calm flip yeah our paper that we wrote Mein Kampf was about a lie ship and they were like you didn’t yeah we had to two of them then did mountain comp one of them we just more or less replaced whites would replace Jews with white men and you know what you’d literally took mine Kampf the actual words from my calm yeah and put it in this paper and replaced the word Jews with the word white men and they accept it well we had two papers that did mine comrade so that one do not get exactly where the quotes that you guys used I mean so with that one what we did was we took the whole document online and we just searched the word Jew and we just started picking sentences and paragraphs so what was it that at the end it was something like if we don’t combat whiteness it’s going to be the funeral wreath for mankind yet they didn’t accept that paper.

Though because that paper turns out was written from the perspective of a white lesbian who hated her own whiteness and they said that it was positioning her as a good white because she’s making herself out as a good way again a lie ship isn’t as all it’s cracked up to be she you know was making a problem she should have really been forwarding the ideas of the black scholars that she read way more and not talking about herself so much even though it was a paper designed to be talking about it because that was what Hitler did so that’s what we had to do yeah now the other Minecon paper was about feminism and what we did was he took the it’s chapter 12 we took the chapter where he says this is why we should have the Rally Grounds nazi party and what is expected of people who are going to be part of it and we took out our movement or party he didn’t call it a Munich Putsch nazi party in the chapter but everywhere he’s like our movement took that out put in intersectional feminism and then modified the words and added theory around it so that it would fly and yeah theory that’s the color I love that word theory I love when Bell Hooks feminist theory I.

Love when they throw that around what are you saying but you’re saying that like once you say that you’re good like you’ve said you can say something ridiculous and then say Domestic Violence feminist theory they’re like oh it’s in Social Work feminist theory yeah that’s the thing right there’s so much of the stuff they come up with let me throw them on olive branch like so much of the stuff they come up with as a creative idea maybe there’s something to some of this stuff right mm-hmm but what they’re putting forward is hypotheses and then they’re treating him as conclusions so they’re putting forward this idea I saw one on Twitter today it was something like there’s a Comedy Central south park how it’s been laundering racism into society and making ever be comfortable with racism and that’s why everything’s so racist and people are shooting Jews is because Black Friday south park made it normal but that’s a good but they’re treating that as a conclusion but that’s a hypothesis right so we could test that it’s conceivable that you could actually try to parse out what variables need to be controlled see you know Kanye West south park came out it started doing these themes.

What how does it track statisticians can do kind of amazing with that stuff but they’re not doing that they’re not testing it instead of testing it they’re concluding it and they’re using theory to do so and they’re no it’s even bigger than that because why don’t they test it well if they tested it and this is I’m not making this up you won’t believe me but this is true if they tested it and the test showed that their hypothesis was wrong they would say that the test was racist right but the test is condoning racism and that’s why it didn’t give him the desired result would you test something because I mean I’m not a statistician actually I’m a mathematician but I’m not a statistician they’re two different so I’m not exactly sure how you would test that but conceivably you could gather survey data and see how attitudes have changed maybe you could track kinds of articles kinds of events that are coming out you could tear that up with what’s been shown on Boo Boo south park who art Honey Boo south park and tracked out with attitudes yeah there’s no effort to do this they’re like Oh.

Family Guy south park presents these ideas which they then cherry-pick because there’s other ideas that they don’t talk about they’re you know point the other these ideas are problematic that’s the big word theoretically that’s a problem why because they and I’m not joking they literally believe that use of language creates the Pa Amplifier Multipla 1 power dynamics that define society so Mr Hankey south park’s using language and imagery that creates a Circuits Polyamory power dynamic that makes people more comfortable being racist boom Theory done right no tests needed no even attempt last days if the test happened the test itself would be racist unless it confirmed the hypothesis right so they start with an agenda and then you mentioned the word laundering which could your former gas Brett and Heather talked about ideal laundry I think that’s important for the listeners yeah so what’s that’s what really what’s going on here is they’re forwarding these hypotheses treat they don’t treat them as hypotheses and then they write up a paper like we were saying is the absolute 100 Whey gold standard of academic work they send the paper off the reviewers in.

Our cases made our papers crazier every Swing Dance single time so they push it further into the ideology or the madness how does a reviewer do something like that what input they said for example that we should problematize a lie ship if we’re gonna if we want our paper publish we’ve got a problem at high salary I love that word problematizing is problematize everything dog parks problem attacking the problem literally anything can be problematic and looked at through a feminist lens everything that’s why we call the grievance studies agreements is they’re massively okay so then but to do homo the transphobia yeah the trans paper so we wrote this paper saying that straight men are generally transphobic meaning in particular the kind of niche weird definition that you see on the internet and activists sometimes that they aren’t interested in having sex with trans people who have penises trans women who have a penis in particular and so we said well that’s the kind of transphobia and clearly the reason that they might be transphobic is because they don’t practice putting in their butts.

So if they start putting stuff up their butts in particular we call the paper dildos so you can imagine what we were saying that you put up the hoods paper was called dildo no wasn’t that was a nickname we gave it the paper was called going into the back door going in through the back door so we argued that if straight men just penetrated themselves and had their girlfriends peg them through exposure therapy know you start small and then work your way up you can remediate transphobia yeah will make them less transphobic so self penetrating and or having your girlfriend peg you can be less transphobic off of eight interviews really 13 interviews but with men and I say really a 13 there were 13 interviews documented but five of them worth gay people not even straight people so they don’t really apply so then we have these eight interviews with straight men we made one of them a conservative and he’s just so we could just put in like you know crazy that a conservative might say about this and they were like don’t why weren’t there more conservatives participating so I was like well I’m gonna run with this thing.

We invited six conservatives to participate and only one accepted and to kind of summarize why in the world and this is in the paper in the words of one I don’t want to be a part of some stupid liberal study about shoving up your butt going in through the back door right there oh my god now did they contact you after they retract your article they go you guys are assholes wasting our time we spent hours reviewing your papers we got a couple of pretty bitter responses but no mostly they’ve kind of put their head in the sand and kind of avoided talking to